Would I let him train my dog ? NO NO NO.

Lovely comment BMc. Good and Bad...But "Dangerous to inexperienced owners" Poor Dogs. They don't know whats going on!!...( And as for People!!!)

For balance it should be remembered that ideally all the TV training/behavioural programmes should mention ruling out medical reasons and this is a point not frequently stressed on other programmes either. That doesn't make it right in any case, but it isn't exclusive to Milan's shows that this is often overlooked or not mentioned.

Although of course we do not know if this has also already happened behind the scenes and some issues in programmes are clearly training problems from the history and presentation, rather than health-dependent behavioural issues.

It should however be remembered for balance that positive methods can also cause harm. If a method is a powerful training technique then mis-timing can powerfully strengthen the behaviour that is intended to be reduced/removed which can be dangerous e.g if dealing with aggression, or getting a dog over excited to overcome fear can lead to over reactivity, rather than calm acceptance.

If owner mis-timing of reward is combined with self reward factors of the undesirable behaviour, that can be a very potent reward indeed, and as we all know, intermittent reinforcement is another powerful technique, so this could happen, even if they only sometimes mis-timed it.

Mis-timing (of positives or negatives) of course also contributes to miscommunication and inconsistency which can add to anxiety.

So unfortunately it is not necessarily the case that reward or "positive" methods does no harm either.

I am not against positive methods, or pro aversive methods (I think every case should be assessed and treated as individually appropriate to all its considerations), but there are plenty of others here putting the pro positive/anti aversion side so there is no need for me to add to that, as it is already pretty fully covered, unlike this aspect.

Hate it when that happens

I think to be fair Gnasher, you can nudge Ben with your knee and he's not aggressive to you, you appear to be using it almost as a distraction, would you agree?

When CM uses it, he has clearly pre conditioned the dog so that usually the dog's reaction is very OTT, often aggressive and this is so so so for TV and ratings.

It's nothing to do with dog welfare, only with lining his pocket

I find it heartbreaking to watch him at work and simply don't, now, as it send my blood pressure sky high


Wys
x

I like some of what he does, but not all.

Overall, I'm of the opinion he does more good than bad (his more avid fans might well have bought & read Ceaser's rules and been introduced to Ian Dunbar etc).

Whatever his faults, and whatever his worst case/scenario might be, I just can't get worked up about it whilst there are practices such as this and this going on.

That's what sets my blood pressure off!

Who ironically created his own DVD in direct response to his concerns with Cesar Millan, his outdated concept of dominance and his methods.

Which DVD are you referring to? (I genuinely don't know) I.D. was quite complimentary over the editorial control he had regarding his chapt of that book.

Brad, it's not 'love' of any description.

Can you not see how he is using the media to promote his convoluted ideas.

He is approaching the subject of 'problem' dogs, not from the point of view that 'what is wrong with the owner' which is where all dogs learn, if the owners are expecting the dog to behave like a human, (and this is the case with the few programmes of his that I have seen) then of course the dog will have issues, and CM's methods will only last for a short time, he is a quick fix artist, what happens a year or two after the filming and the human owners have not changed their life style one little bit, well it's obvious to me that most of CM's dogs will be back where they were before he got involved.

Just because he is on TV doesn't make him a God you know although I readily concede that in America it probably does.

I can't remember the exact title off the top of my head - it's something like "fighting dominance". Admittedly it's a good 5 years old now and i did know that ID had worked together with CM more recently.

Ben is not aggressive now in response to the knee nudge, but he sure was when we first got him. His answer to being asked to do something that he did not want to do was aggression, pure and simple. Why? Because everyone in his past had either abused him, or spoiled him rotten and let him do what he wanted. I am not sure what is worse with a dog like Ben. His last owner, who gave Ben to us, is a lovely guy, a very good friend of our's, and he would be the first to admit that 1) he was far too soft with Ben out of very pure motives - he adores the dog, and it is a measure of how much he loves him that he gave him to us to keep permanently because he could see how Ben and Tai had bonded and he considered it would be cruel to split them up. 2) Ben has flourished, thrived and reached his full potential with us ... using those cruel CM methods !

I don't kick my dog, but I do respond to his paw-stamps and vocalised demands quite assertively. I will knee nudge him quite firmly in the ribs, to which initially he responded with aggression - not severe, but he would turn on your leg in a threatening and suggestive way in an attempt to frighten you into backing off. When this didn't work, indeed far from backing off, I would step forward into his space, tell him to sit, knee nudge him again in the chest if he refused to, and would not give up until he was calm and sitting down. He would then get huge praise and a cuddle. I find one of the best things with Ben is to always expose your vulnerable parts - eg your face - whenever I praise him I have my face up against his muzzle, clearly a very dangerous thing to do with an aggressive dog, but this was one of the things that I have always done with ben and he responded very well. He has never ever threatened me in any way when I have had my face next to his muzzle, but several times he has turned on my hand when I have gently grasped his collar to remove him from the sofa. He has stopped doing this now because he can clearly see that I am not intimidated at all by this threat, and meekly gets down now when asked to.

His recall is now fantastic - better than Tai's - his respect and love for us and for Tai has no bounds. he is a thoroughly happy and well balanced dog now - it's just over 2 years since we first had him, and I credit CM's techniques - not the kicking of course - but the calm, assertive energy and the setting of rules, boundaries and limitations and being a good pack leader.

Incidentally, my 2 boys love going on our jogging machine. We have it set to the highest slope and they both really enjoy it. It is an addition to, not instead of, their daily walk, and I see nothing wrong with using such a device to stimulate them. They still need of course to go out daily for walkies, but as an extra I think it excellent.

I know you dislike CM intensely Wys, but truly for our hooligans he has been a saviour.