Organically-raised animals must have access to the outdoors, including access to pasture for ruminants.

The also have to be kept in smaller herds/flocks etc...all the reading I have done on this assumes organic animals are free range...and organically fed and treated.

Hope his works Pidge Here goes -

What do you mean by born with it to be in them, we are born omnivores with all the necessary cutting and digesting equipment for both meat and veg.

Re: the pescetarianism bit - yep, that's me but I never say it because no one ever knows what it means and saying I'm veggie (and happily confessing to eating fish) is alot easier than me saying ''well, I don't eat any meat, but I eat all types of seafood. I also eat fish but I don't like anything with a steaky texture like tuna and I like my fish to be well done. I love parmesan cheese but can by funny about eggs.''

So is it just the texture of meat you don't like rather than an ethical point - genuinely interested here


I don't think anyone who eats fish and wears leather can call themselves a 'real' vegetarian.

No they definitely can't I think using vegetarian in that situation is wrong

And thats not just for Pidge to answer, if you don't eat meat but eat fish or cheeses etc is it becaus eyou don't like the taste texture of meat or is it from an ethical point as in the slaughterhouse/conditions etc?

As said before I love eating meat but I won't eat lamb, but thats not because its a baby sheep its simply because I do not like the taste of lamb or mutton for that matter


That would be interesting Shona, I'd love to know how you get on

The thing that interests me is would vegetarians survive in the real world, eg without society to protect them? If the world as we know it today ended and we had to live on what the land gave us would vegetarianism be possible? Not only from a sustenance (sp?) point of view but also nutritionally.

The main reason Homosapiens are where they are now is because we learnt to use fire to cook meat allowing the jaw muscles to shrink in turn enabling the brain to increase in size leading to increased intelligence etc (as I understand it). So for me meat eating is part and parcel of being Human, it's why we're here now.

This is from Compassion in world farming:

Know your labels
Food labelling should be simple but it is not. Virtually every product on the supermarket shelf has its own unique set of colour codes or logos claiming to be healthy or free from one harmful thing or another. It can be a minefield working out which product is healthier to buy and labelling for animal welfare is no different. In fact, some labels you will find on meat products are positively misleading!


What to beware of
If you care about where your meat comes from beware of the Red Tractor logo. The Red Tractor scheme, run by Assured Food Standards claims to promote good farming practices but in reality often offers little assurance to consumers beyond simple compliance with minimum legal requirements.

The Lion Mark is important for food safety, ensuring your eggs are safe to eat, but guarantees nothing about the conditions in which the eggs were laid.

What do these labels mean?
These food labels basically confirm compliance with minimum legal regulations
Almost all British produce will have these labels
The standards do nothing to prevent the serious welfare issues of confinement in cages, high stocking densities, fast-growing breeds and many mutilations
In fact some of the standards can be lower than DEFRA recommendations (which are not enforceable by law), e.g. high stocking density so chickens suffer from issues connected with overcrowding
One or two of the standards are higher than minimum legal regulations e.g. castration of pigs is not allowed
Beware clever marketing
Beware terms like "Farm Fresh." They are nothing more than a marketing ploy and mean nothing in terms of animal welfare.

What to look for
Organic labels
Organic is a land-based farming system using no chemical fertilisers or pesticides. Animals have outdoor access and other higher welfare e.g. later weaning in pigs. There are currently nine different organisations who can give organic certification.



The Soil Association Organic Standard provides the highest welfare levels in the UK e.g. smaller flock sizes for chickens and no live exporting of dairy calves.

Freedom Food
Freedom Food is the RSPCA's labelling and assurance scheme dedicated to improving welfare standards for farm animals. The scheme covers both indoor and outdoor rearing systems and ensures that greater space and bedding material are provided.

Store Standards
Other stores might have their own standards which can go above other standards e.g. Waitrose and M&S whose basic level meat and poultry generally have a higher standard of welfare.



Stores such as Whole Foods Market have their own labelling system with a good base level and very high welfare at best e.g. no mutilations and very extensive free-range (see their standards brochure).

Free-range
Animals have access to the outdoors for at least part of their life.There are EU regulations about what free-range means for laying hens and broilers (meat chickens) but there are no EU regulations for free-range pork and so pigs could be indoors for some of their lives.

Other labels
Eggs
If you are buying eggs look for organic, free-range, and if possible tree cover e.g. Sainsbury’s woodland eggs.

Chicken and turkey

If you are buying chicken meat look for organic, free-range, or if not these then good indoor chicken such as Freedom Food and higher welfare products e.g. Tesco Willow Farm Chicken.

Pork, ham, bacon
If you're buying pigmeat make sure the animal was born and reared outdoors. There are some good indoor systems for rearing pigs – look out for provision of bedding in the standards.

Beef and veal
If you're buying beef or veal buy British and especially British organic, look out for grass fed on the label.


Dairy produce

Look out for organic, preferably Soil Association certified, milk, yogurt, cheese and butter. Otherwise, look for own-label dairy produce from supermarkets who have also stopped calf-exports such as M&S and Tesco.

How was that?

Thanks for that

All the posts about organic/free range etc are very interesting.

I often have a job explaining why my eggs (and turkeys) aren't organic or free range...

Although my birds come from organic stock, and are fed organic food, my land isn't certified organic. As I'm not a business/farm etc I couldn't do it, even if I wanted to. The costs and regulations are too much for a mini-holder like myself.

In terms of free-range, our birds are in a roofed run. This is mainly for their own safety and my peace of mind. We live in a rural area, with a known fox and bird-of-prey population. We have a game hatchery down the road from us which draws a lot of foxes etc to the area.
Although foxes are regularly dispatched, I don't want to take the chance of all 20 of my birds being attacked.

We also have our own dogs, who aren't bird friendly, plus most dogs in the area can and do wander around.

The run however is 100sq ft and is 7ft high. The birds are let out in a morning, and have their shed plus other shelters for bad weather.

So they aren't free-range; but are still better looked after than a lot of birds in commercial units!

Thanks for all the replies about free range and organic.

As CIWF has pointed out, labelling in supermarkets is a minefield, and I therefore prefer to either eat meat we have reared and had slaughtered etc ourselves, or buy from a trusted butcher, farm shop or direct from an abattoir with high welfare standards.

Anything organic has to be certified in one shape or form...or the company labelling would get taken to the cleaners