Where does it say that?

Thats what I couldn't find in the rules--although I am sure it must be there.

What you wrote was this

They really are not "whipped" as in the actual sense of it, if they were they would be marked, which is extremely rare. The horse in question was examined by a vet (as all were) after the race, no marks of any description were evident, and futhermore no evidence of any abuse to any Horse was found. The stewards still felt he used his whip excessively and banned him, I absolutely agree with that, he broke the rules, he pays the price.

So you reckon no horse is actually whipped unless it is marked.

Laughing at the 'no evidence of any abuse was found-----dying doesn't count then!

rune

Lynn, Im really wondering what you have been taking today. Let me try for you one last time, cos I got to go out tonight and havent got 3hrs for you!

IMO hitting a Horse with a racing/riding crop does not constitute whipping. The bans are in force for the reasons I said:
Excessive use
Excessive frequency
Not giving the Horse time to respond and hitting them in the wrong place.

WHen one speaks of no abuse, you know damn well what I was referring to, but you continue to look silly.

For the final time. I love racing, I have no issue with the safety of the GN nor with Horses that are unfortunately injured at times providing they are attended to immediately.

Many thanks.

Thats OK----I now know that it was not the jockey club rules but your own that you were talking about.

rune

Yes, or even the BHA.

Sorry dear, the Jockey Club is nothing to do with it, would have thought you knew that. Silly me. (or you) (imagines Lynn removing yet another hoof from mouth)

Hi Wilbar, You have put forward some very interesting comments on my post, many of which I find myself agreeing with.

Yes indeed, horses are very much prey animals and as such are primed to flight - preferably in a herd as there is safety in numbers. So as you say, racing could be considered an exploitation of this. However I still maintain (still talking about the National in particular here) that the horses DO enjoy it, and are not just blindly running because everyone else is. I kept horses for many years, and I recognise that "look" when a horse takes the lead in the race. The ears prick, the expression is keen and not frightened, and they are looking for the next fence. Yes, you could argue that the pricked ears etc. of the lead horse are merely because it has the responsibility of checking out what's ahead, but I honestly don't believe this to be so. Take that good old legend, Red Rum. If the race is a horrible ordeal for horses, why did he only ever come alive when stepping onto Aintree turf? I believe that a good race with jumps, including the testing National, is the equivalent of a good day's hunting for these horses. No matter what anyone's views on hunting, horses absolutely and undoubtedly love it. Mine used to go bonkers if they heard the horn, and if I didn't stable them would do their darnest to jump out of the paddock to go and find the hunt!!

Your point about pushing a horse to it's limits, is the bit where my weather vane swings around a little. I certainly do not like to see a clearly exhausted animal pushed to go further or faster, and as I said before, I would dearly love to see the use of whips in racing outlawed. On the other hand, nothing was ever won without effort - either in the human field or with horses; we either say that horses should never be used for competitive sport or we accept their essential role in a wide range of events. I still maintain that a horse who doesn't enjoy racing/eventing/show jumping/polo etc. etc. is soon retired to a life of hacking - horses have a brain (albeit the size of a walnut!) and are very capable of saying "NO". No amount of threats or punishment will transform a reluctant racer/jumper into a superstar.

As for the care of racehorses, especially the top ones - yes, they do have the very best of everything and are coddled morning noon and night, and you are probably right in that they don't care twopence about most of it. Still, many trainers now are well aware of the benefits of turning them out in the paddock whenever possible so that they can relax and be a horse. After all, a happy contented (and well fed, clean and warm) animal is part of the battle, and I see nothing wrong in this.

Coming specifically to this year's National and the two sad deaths - so much has been done already to make the fences safer; when you look at the size of the things years ago, they were absolutely enormous. To reduce them any further would mean that you might just as well scrap the race altogether; but then there are so many other races on other racecourses where there are fatalities. I dislike this aspect of it as much as anyone, but the fact of it is - horses are just as likely to injure themselves when fooling around in the field, or slipping in the yard, or mucking about on a ride. They are tricky things, and as you know if they break something then more often than not there is only one possible outcome. Like you, the people involved with these racehorses that I feel most sorry for are the grooms who build up such a strong bond with their charges, but the owners and trainers also are usually distraught if something happens to their horse. Sometimes the animals are not only superb racehorses but also something of a pet........Desert Orchid, Best Mate to name but two - but they were not just pets, they were there for a purpose, and I see nothing wrong in racing, or the National, as such.

I had better stop! Thank you Wilbar for a good discussion. Going to pour myself a chotah peg

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMP...horse/ALL/598/

There you go the rules from the English Jockey club regarding excessive use of the whip as quoted by BD (sorry to spoil your sport for the evening BD).
Do you know understand what we're trying to get across.

I was going by Morganstars post---she said you were talking about jockey club rules and you didn't correct her----as you are so quick to correct anyone for anything they have wrong I assumed----wrongly----that you were talking about the jockey club rules.

In fact this post and your answer seem to indicate that you WERE talking about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morganstar
I think Dawns refering to the Jockey club rules on whipping and not stressing a personal opinion.

Dont waste your time MS, Lynn has already put her hoof in it a few times.

Seems like you were talking about what you THOUGHT the rules were----then you realised you were wrong so now you are wriggling and back pedalling.

Never mind----now you have checked you too know more about racing than you did at the beginning of this discussion

rune

She JUST said it wasn't jockey club rules!

What on earth is going on? You are supposed to be on her side.

rune

Sorry, your trying to twist things, I gave you ample opportunity to realise what you had said, I even deleted the correction in one of my posts, before not mentioning it again. It proves to me you have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about, dont be too upset about it Lynn, its not the first time in this thread, do like me, just tell the truth. A liar will always be found out.

The jockey club owns other companies, if their site is as it was a year or so ago, it should tell you that on one of the main pages, it wouldnt have taken much for you to have a look before posting.

I have two friends who work in yards, one works for Marco Botti and the other for Willie Haggas, they did enjoy your posts.

Back to the thread?

EXACTLY, and she still didnt see!!!