Sadly we had to let it go unrenewed, because of impecuniosity!

Agreed about trainers, but the ones at the local GSD club, if they will accept Ben, will be fine. I know of at least 2 GSDs who go there, and they make Ben look like a pussy cat!!

thanx Stumpy.

It is not up to the other dogs to sort out Ben if the 'starts' imo it is not acceptable for him to be having a go at dogs in class at all
As for GSD's being robust enough - some possibly - looking around here I would say not at all, most of them are pretty mouthy and wouldnt be good at all for your boy

It is not acceptable for Ben to "start", but "start" he will and it is up to ME to "unstart" him. However, that said, the best way IMO for a dog to learn manners, is from another dog. Tai has taught Ben far more in many ways than we have.

Mouthy is not what we want. Calm assertiveness is what we want. The reason I am thinking about a GSD class is simply that both the dogs and their handlers should not be too fazed by Ben's arsiness. Well balanced dogs do not inflict injury, they will issue forth a lot of sound and fury, and even a lot of what looks like a horrendous fight, but when it is all over there is very rarely any injury, a bit of loose hair maybe. What Ben did to the next door lab was extreme and very uncharacteristic, apart from a few scrapes of his claws inflicted on Tai during their scraps, he has never actually bitten another dog.

She is certainly not too far away from us, only about 20 miles. I like what she says - the dog must be referred to her following a full veterinary check up - and her fees are very reasonable. Definitely something to bear in mind Wys when our lives are a bit more back to normal. Thanx so much x gnasher x

Yup it is up to you to unstart him - or to teach him not to start in the first place
I know because this is what I am dealing with with Mia - it is not aceptable for her to have a go at another dog, yes sometimes I mess up and she barks and I get her out of the situation - but training is actually happening when she is calm and quiet around other dogs
When she is kicking of she is not learning anything
and worse - other dogs around her are learning bad things about her that might effect their behaviour in future
Yes dogs learn manners from meetings with well balanced dogs
But you are assuming the dogs in the class will be well balanced - you have already said there are 2 there who will make Ben look like a pussy cat
Dosent sound well balanced to me

Basically you first have to figure out why he is reacting - most often it is to preempt
'I will get you before you have a chance to get me'
If the dog is then met with a dog who fights back then his belief that the dogs are going to go for him is reinforced

Him kicking off is more likely to get an aggressive response from another dog
Whether it is handbags or whatever - that is still reinforcing the fact that other dogs are going to have a go at him

He needs to learn to calmly greet dogs
without kicking off at all
to realise bein around other dogs is a nice thing
and/or to be able to focus and ignore other dogs safley in the knowladge that they will not interact with him in any way so he hasnt got to worry about them

You cannot rely on other peoples dogs to train your dog - they are not at a class for that - they are there to train their dogs
You cannot just assume someone elses dog is well balanced
and worse still
You cannot let your dog kick off at a dog in a class and let the other dog 'teach him manners' Ben having a go at another dog could end up being the straw that breaks the back and that dog becomes reactive - and then the circle continues

If Ben will kick off at other dogs in a class situation then he is not ready for a class situation and you need to work with him 1 to 1 with someone who knows what they are talking about

It's so hard to explain things without using verbal cues!! so I won't attempt to - just suffice to say the 2 GSDs who are not pussy cats, are calm, well-balanced dogs, but they will not stand for any insurrection - think CM's Daddy! Whether you like CM or not, Daddy acted as a calming influence on many an unsocialised, DA dog such as my Ben.

I like the look of the lady who Wys has recommended - if you google her, you will find her website, on the surface she looks good and is geographically quite close to us. I really don't know whether Ben is ready for a class situation until I try it ... I will know within 10 seconds whether it is going to be OK or not, and if it's not, we'll be out of there toute suite! Another problem I would have is that he would have to have his vaccinations, and I really don't want that as this type of dog frequently suffer from anaphylactic shock with annual boosters. It needs careful consideration both ways. And you have helped me to think, thanx!!

Or so we are led to believe. There are some first-hand reports leaking out from behind the mirrors and smoke which suggest many of CM's dogs in his yard wear E-collars permanently. Presumably this was because they were DA and needed to. If Daddy was that great, why didn't he work on them? [This when he was still alive BTW].

I hope you'll forgive me for saying this but I feel you're coming across as wanting a quick fix, i.e. some magic wand either in the form of a training device or a Superdog, to do the work you could be doing yourself (and with much greater chance it will work).

She has a very good reputation.

Well as has been said before, there is no way he is ready for class/group sessions if what you have described about him is correct. And not all trainers insist on [adult] dogs needing to be vaccinated.

And in any case, if you can do some 1-1 training with this lady as has already been suggested, then that can take place ANYWHERE and needn't involve any other dogs. You could even have 1-1 in your own home (which might persuade your neighbour you are taking your dog's behaviour seriously and doing something to remedy it). Or, it could be at a park where other dogs are present but at a safe distance.

I am doing 1-1 agility training at the moment and have to say, half an hour is plenty enough and you would be amazed at how fast dogs can progress in the 1-1 situation (this applies to any form of training).

I agree 1-1 training is the way to go here. (Not sure why you wanted a GSD class?)
It is not fair to subject a training class with a dog of Ben's needs, and it wouldn't help him if you did.

I think one to one is the only way forward atm tbh. I also think that management is ALWAYS going to be key...