But if their methods are so different presumably Roger would have known that as he would presumably have interviewed Chirag carefully about his methods, qualifications and experience before he employed him?

Have to agree with others that it sounds rather risky to expose the public to Cain, and vica versa, in that rather uncontrolled fashion, particularly given MM's description of how very fast and determinedly Cain can react, with very little evident build up if I have understood her posts, when he decides to do so

There is also the consideration that many dogs will initially behave differently with an unaccustomed handler, as they have that additional distraction to think about.

It will be interesting to see what report you get this time MM, and if the cheque comes with the report.

I think Amanda, that you have so much going on right now that if you are not happy/comfortable with the methods/service/whatever. Let it go.

I can't say how you feel, how you should feel, how Cain feels etc. Only you know that but sometimes when you have the weight of the world on your shoulders, there are some things that need to be done, some things that dont. For £250 which is a lot of money you have seen two behaviourists. If your still not happy then write and ask that your promised refund be sent out to you and leave it at that would be my advice (if your still not comfy). Obviously I'm not saying that if you want to go further with either the pursuit of a refund or more training you shouldnt. I just think that sometimes we are better cutting our losses and moving on, and even more so when you have a lot of stress going on elsewhere in life too.

You get to live once, so dont put too much pressure on yourself or cain just now, thats all I'm saying

I just get the feeling that your not happy with either the service or the methods. Sometimes owners dont like to come out of the comfort zone, more than its their dogs that cant handle things but sometimes it just comes down to you knowing your dog, your life and what you can both handle. Nothing wrong with that.

Again, not saying this specifically about you and Cain but sometimes I wonder if we expect dogs just to like people coming into our home, like dogs and kids, expect to be petted when they dont want to be....when if its manageable, and lets face it your an expert on managing Cain and situations, then will Cain ever/should he ever be expected to sit in a park with kids touching him etc etc I dont see why tbh. Yes its defo preferable to have a dog that you can "count on" but is it absolutely necessary? And if the aim isnt to get Cain "good" in these situations then what is the aim of these sessions? At least thats what I'd be asking myself. Like I say I dont just mean about you and Cain but in general.

Just dont put too much strain on either of you just now

What is CAT?

Page 156 of BAT book by Grisha Stewart.

Is that the one where they are rewarded for when they stop reacting by getting to go away from the scary thing?

Well it is the trigger that is moved away not the dog and the dogs are often put over the threshold.

I do not like it for three reasons.

1 the dogs are not given a choice to stay or leave
2 they are often put over threshold
3 I think it can be incredibly stressful for the decoy dog

When I did it with a dog no way did we go over his threshold and the stooge dog was well chilled----however I can see that both those things could easily happen.

rune

Ahh thankyou, yes I thought it was something like that but I havent looked into it too much, I didnt like the idea if things were going as you say they are - and I am pretty sure I am not skilled enough to try it how Rune was saying not putting them over threshold - I know Mia would flip out at the dog being moved away

I am not saying it does not work, but it was originally designed as a research tool with sheep.

It was then adapted to use with dogs.

I think like any method its success or failure lies largely lies in a) the skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience of the practitioner(s) and b) in the nature of the issue.

In real life (where most people have to live and where most real training is done) we know that we cannot control the behaviour of other dogs or their owners but we CAN control our own.

Thus I PREFER BAT as it puts the entire onus on the owner of the dog AND the dog itself, thus it is enabling and empowering for the dog.

I am not convinced the same can be said for CAT, there are far too many variables in my view.

Very likely---I never had the chance to find out as the dog was pts. Long story and a dog on its last of several chances in rescue kennels.

Not in any way ideal and IMO he should have been pts about a year before, however it wasn't my choice.

rune