Questions for those of you running training classes?

As we've all seen from some of the threads on here & elsewhere, people have very different ideas, thoughts & expectations of their dogs. I just wondered how people running dog training classes dealt with any of the views of their clients that they know are patently wrong? E.g. people that expect their dogs to understand whole sentences, people that are very anthropomorphic in their understanding of dog behaviour, people that want to be the "leader of the pack" etc etc. I don't want to confine the discussion to just these 3 examples but feel free to include anything else that you have to deal with or disillusion people about.

And it's all very well saying we use predominantly pos R for dog training but do all you trainers also make the effort to use pos R on your clients? If so, what do you do?

Just for starters at the classes I've helped with, the first night is without the dogs, so owners can concentrate on what the trainer is saying, they get used to the hall & find their way around, they get told certain do's & don'ts, & get a brief overview of dog behaviour to set the scene for the training they're about to start. There's also a Q&A session at the end too.

I'm just interested in ideas, experiences, tips etc.

Most of my clients are 1:1 as my "day job" means I cannot commit to weekly classes; however I do run the odd day course or even weekend.

I try to discover what their REAL aims are, and what the REAL problems are (like a doctor, a patient/client may come to you for one thing, but it is the issue they bring up as a throwaway as they leave the office which is often the most important one).

I have short simple handouts which are in the form of FAQ , I elaborate where necessary, it usually is not.

I also let THEM appear to come up with the answers so eg I give them an exercise to do and see if the light bulb switches on.

A bit short and succint, but that is the gist.

Eg when people talk about their dogs understanding, I start ordering them about in Arabic, they soon get the point!

Thanks Smokeybear ~ I very impressed that you can speak Arabic!

I like the handouts for FAQs

I do part-time feline behavioural work under vet referral but, obviously this is always 1 to 1. I always try to find something to praise the owners for or admire their cat for whatever reason ~ but cat owners don't usually have such high expectations for their cats as dog owners do for their dogs!

And because cat behaviour very often involves management regime changes, much of it revolves around practical issues like rearranging furniture, shutting doors etc. So it's not quite as complex as managing dog issues in some ways.

But I'm also interested in how trainers cope with these issues in group classes ~ changing the perceptions of a group can be quite a daunting prospect at times.

best thing i ever did was to clicker train the owners!! absolute GREAT fun and boy did they get the message!! one of the ladies i did it to, just kept saying "oh my god, i cant believe how difficult that was!" and so i say, now you know how your dogs feel!"
other things i do are non verbal sessions, so we can practice, sit/down.come.wait etc, everyone in their own space and absolutely NO talking, the dogs work much better this way and the owners are always impressed.
For my more advanced members, we do no eye contact, with things like distance control and such, which is hard for both dog and owner
as for the dominance thing, i often bring it up in classes and they know i have two rotts, to which i often say, do you really think that if Kane (big lad) wanted to challenge me, that i could PHYSICALLY overpower him?!! not a chance, everything he does, is because he has been taught to and knows if he oversteps the mark he gets told to lie down, he then throws himself on his back lol, which i tell members is TRUE submission, he put himself in that position, not me!

the worst ones for me are the "princess/handbag dogs" (yes i have had dogs turn up to class in handbags!! anyway as nicely as i can i tell them that dogs need to exercise, gain independance and confidence, be social and happy and that cannot be achieved from being carried around in arms or handbag, i DO however tell them that if they (or i) see their dog is not happy, allow them room, they may crawl under your chair and you may tell other dogs to go away. That puts you in protector role, NOT your dog
have never had anyone argue the point.... yet lol

Your classes sound great fun & really interesting

We also play the shaping game on the first night when there are no dogs around. And you're quite right ~ it does owners a lot of good to have a bit of understanding about what their dogs will feel like as the owners begin training.

I always try to find something positive to say about the dog or the owner, esp with owners that are struggling to juggle clicker, treats & lead. This article rang bells with me:

How to deliver treats smoothly while training.

You could go with the method I used:

• Treat bag on your right side, dog on your left. Clicker and line in left hand. Get a handful of treats - start walking and hurry to click and treat while big puppy is still in position.
• While trying to reach around yourself to treat the puppy with the hand furthest away from him, you” must” make sure to have an appropriately strong "Doh" moment where you realise that you should have put the treat bag and treat-hand closest to the dog.
• Make sure that the Doh moment is very short, for while you are having it, your pup will jump in front of you to facilitate the treat dispensing, bouncing your hand in the process, which greatly helps in scattering the treats, most of them falling into your dog's face.
• This will make him stop on the spot to receive the unexpected bounty from above, which enables you to:

a) fall over him
b) tangle yourself in his line (focus on your legs here)
c) make an athletic effort to avoid landing on top of your dog or
d) all of the above.

• I personally chose method d). This has the added benefit
  of giving your dog plenty of time to eat the handful of treats while you lie moaning on the ground and attempt to untangle your legs from the line.
• If done correctly the athletic avoidance manoeuvre in c) will make most of the treats fall out of the treat-bag (remember to leave the bag open, if you close it you loose this quite spectacular effect).
• This extra scattering of treats will send not only your
  own, but also any nearby dogs (perhaps the entire puppy-class! Or, in my case, 4 fully grown chessies (of 30-40 kg's each) into a feeding frenzy, thereby liberally decorating your clothes with paw prints and drool marks as they jump around on you to get at the treats.
• Furthermore you will experience the benefit of distraction from the pain of the bruises you got while falling over (re a) as you scramble to save as many treats as possible before they are consumed.
• The last positive effect of this method is the mood changing effect. Any spouses, children, passers-by or class attendants will greatly appreciate your efforts to lighten the mood. And your puppy will love that you are crawling around on the ground to play with him. He will show his appreciation by engaging you in play behaviour.
• If properly planned you will have grown your hair long and be wearing it in a ponytail. This helps your pup get a good grip as he initiates a play-tug-session. Note: it can be quite difficult to disentangle hair from the teeth of a half-grown puppy, particularly if you were trying to stand up at the time of grabbing, and are now - as the result of having 18 kg's of dog hanging from your head - face down on the ground.

Good luck - enjoy the journey!)

haha! thats ace! might give that as a handout lol!
i think its really important for the classes to be fun, not just for the dog, if the owners are enjoying themselves it makes better learning for all involved and encourages the to keep going and make sure they return

Interesting thread.

We do a 2.5 hour session, on how dogs learn, what they are learning, rewards and punishment (often people perceive these incorrectly) avoiding common problems, like digging, food/resource guarding, barking, pulling, recall failure, chewing, Nutrition and its effect on behaviour, entertainning a bored dog, and the most important bit, seeing everything from the dogs point of view and also developing the relationship between dog and owner. There are usually half, maybe 4 or 5 members of the team at this sessions as well as the nutritionalist and vet nurse. People are free to ask questions that are on topic throughout and all the team and instructors will answer questions.

We ask people to go home and research their breed more and write a "job description" for the pet dog "THEY WANT" as opposed to the bouncing set of genetic potential they currently may have. There are no dogs at these sessions so folks can concentrate and take it in.

This evening also doubles up as a pre ownership educational event for would be owners.

Many times people write to me afterward and express how much the evening transformed their understanding and indeed the relationship with their dog. This has been the single most influencial change to the way we do things in the whole history of CaDeLac.

We point out that MOST of the "unwanted" behaviours that dogs exhibit are indeed normal, natural and sometimes breed specific behaviours, that need to be counter trained to be avoided. This encourages proactive rather than reactive training. I encourage people to see "problems" as amazing opportunities to learn about their dog and develop their relationship. AS brilliant gifts of great fortune and direction. We encourage this throughout the team and throughout our customer base. Our in house motto aimed at any challenging situation is "learn and grow"! Our job is to support and encourage the process.

This evening has a long Q& A session but is wholly interactive. I dont expect an audience to sit and listen to me for that long - I expect them to take part!

The whole evening is based on humour to keep folks interested. There is a clip on food guarding on my website if you wish to see the sort of thing..

At classes we try to have 2 instructors per class in each room (we run three classes in three rooms concurrently), so that people get lots of time and can ask questions and have lots of help. .

The intro night sets the tone of our methods with a relaxed informal and friendly approach and this continues into the classes.

Dogs or puppies are started together at the bottom level and work through the levels with animals divided into puppies, adolescants or adults. We currently have 11 classes running as some classes are suspended in the winter.

The whole team is dedicated to understanding that whilst we are there to teach our experiences, we are also there, very much to learnt from our customers. And whatever they say, no matter how odd or unlikely it may seem, is listened to and where possible learned from. Where customer expectations have to be managed or changed we change them, by establishing what the client actually wants and then establishing in their mind what is actually possible.

I dont have a problem with people talking in sentences as long as it works for their dog and relationship. As sometimes it does. I also don't mind people anthropomorphisising (Blimey how might one spell that), again, as long as it works for the dog. I also don't have problem with people being leader of the pack if again, it works. If these thigns do work, personally I liek to sit down and observe and work out why it works. And where possible adopt it.

For instance, I am more convinced as time goes by that many dogs respond much better to multiple words than by single or short traditional commands. Mainly because people approach part sentences with a more emotionally enthused tonem becasue they themselves understand that better, than they approach say the word "Stay". Which however you say it, is a bit unfriendly.

Many many dogs respond better, certainly during the training phase, to "Shall we do some heelwork matey?" then they do "Heel". I could write for ever about why I feel this is.

It is important to us that we value each clients experience at the first instance as a learning experience for us, to discover, and experience. Then, if it is in the interest of the dog and owner, we change it if necessary.

If you come to me believing that your dog can speak 5 different languages, intuit what you want him to do without any signals or help from you, consider him dominant or submissive or omega, or any of those terms that have become so old fashioned and forum hated, you keep your dog sometimes in a handbag, a shoe box, or you leave him at home for 18 hours a day, then that is fine by me, as long as both dog and owner are happy and the best is being got from the relationship.

I do not believe that there is one single person out there who understands even 20% of what there is to know about dogs and I am very very greatful that all the clients we have, offer us their experiences, views and understanding that everyone might learn.


I think I might have strayed off topic,,,,, sorry if I did.

Your classes sound like lots of fun and well approached. Can I come please?

Brilliant! Am loving the sound of this!

Not off topic at all & I'm not surprised that your classes are so well received ~ they sound brilliant

I love the fact that all your clients are dealt with as individuals, that you are prepared to adapt methods to suit client & dog, that your priorities are to ensure both owners & dogs have fun. But most of all the ethos that we can all learn from each other, trainer, owner & dog, is a lovely way to view things.

And the idea that "potential" owners can attend & learn about dogs before they get a dog is fantastic ~ it should give them a realistic view on the rewards & responsibilities of dog ownership

So well done ~ I hope others running training classes can get ideas from you.