I think this might be a good place to stop quoting each other, (except if your dishing our raspberries of course !) and continue debating this in a nice way.............. I'll go first :

Benmcfuzzies : Camels jaws move side to side, yet they are not carnivores So could you explain the relevance of this theory that animals whom only have a vertical moving jaw cannot be omnivorous, as I too am a believer that dogs are indeed omnivores, especially as their back teeth are used to 'grind' bone, just like we have grindy teeth.

well unless we can add that the hypothetical dog was a border collie who had been given food as a substitute for exercise/mental stimulation) and/or as answer for everything (bridery to get her to do anything, e.g. move off the furniture) and who it seems had never been on walks/socialised, my answers would be completely useless .

I must admit - I have skim read most of this as it seems to contain several pages of people argiung but there are a couple of points I would like to comment on.

Unless I have missed certain posts, where do people state that Northern breeds are dominant towards people? I have mentioned that they do have their own pack heirarchy within themselves but that does not include humans. I personally do not subscribe to 'Alpha training' - I am more than happy to let my dogs eat before me (well I don't normally eat breakfast so they would be waiting rather a long time for theirs if that were the case ), they come up on the sofa for a cuddle (although admittedly they are not allowed upstairs and have to get off the sofa when asked) and I am also happy to let them walk through doors before me. They can be 'dominant' towards other dogs but not towards people.

I do believe certain breeds are more 'dominant' by nature than others, however I certainly do not believe in Alpha rolling and hate it when I hear this advice being given out. I often see people ask for help with certain issues such as puppy mouthing and people advise them to 'Alpha roll' the pup to teach it it's place

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

I think you have picked up on a very good point here Patch, often people can make situations worse by trying to enforce a certain heirarchy (normally by assuming the eldest must be at the top) which can then escalate problems between the dogs.

The only other thing I want to comment on that I picked up from this thread was the suggestion of using a muzzle on a 14 week old pup Please do not go down this route - your pup is only a baby and just needs consistent training so he learns what is and isn't acceptable

Iams/Eukanuba recall as at least 10 dogs die of Kidney failure

I'm Stunned (Iams testing pet foods)

Iams... the suffering behind the 'science'


So why did you feel the need to introduce yourself as you did and bring in doing the same course as two from Dog Borstal, [ like that would do you any favours ], and make a show of `paper credentials` as though that is all important ?
It may not have been your intent to do that but its how you are coming across and you can`t or won`t see it no matter how many people try to guide you on this aspect of how you are making yourself appear

So none of it is down to your tone from the word go ?
Its everyone else but never you ?
You don`t think perhaps you are being responded to `like for like` ?
The difference so far is that when you are responded to in the same manner as you come across, you get rude, start name calling, and have a tantrum. Yet those you are doing that to are still giving you the time of day. Think about it...

Comments disagreeing with you are backed up, explanations of why your statements, [ whichever they may be ], are disagreed with have been given in detail - the contents which you consider `pedantic nitpicking` are actually discussion, views, and experiences which back up why another poster may disagree with something you have written.

Have`nt seen much of that yet

Its you who is doing that Steve, that`s the problem, you are treating us like clueless numpties, how many times does that need to be said before you realise it`s what you do whether you mean to or not


or maybe take some time to read articles and threads already on Dogsey so you can see that members here are not quite as dumb about dogs as you imply with your posts ? [ again, that may not be your intent but it`s what you have been doing nonetheless ].

malady
Sorry - wrong way round
Carnivores jaws only move up and down - they slice meat
Sideways chewing is for veggies - camels, cows and stuff - and us omnivores
Dogs back teeth are pointy and if you watch them gnaw bones its nothing like us chewing veg - its slicing little bits off or crushing bits never grinding - they cant

I agree, this kind of advice we have heard many times, and it's so sad AND dangerous that people actually do it ! Someone actually approached me walking the dogs one day and told ME that I should do it if my dogs were getting out of hand (they were playing)

Did I get it the wrong way round, or did you ? I can't remember

Anyhow, I understand what you mean by that, as when you read most of the Raw diets they say you need to liquidise any veg, as a dog's digestion cannot break down the cell walls of the veg, so to me this could be a possible reason that they would not actively seek out vegetable matter for their diet anyway.

However, saying that, I think they would have still inadvertently maybe ingested veggie matter through eating smaller prey etc, and the faeces of veg eating animals and found some nutritional benefit from it. For that reason, when mine were RAW fed, they did get veg, but in such a small amount, it was just enough to simulate that they just ate the 'currants' previously belonging to a rabbit

I knew I could get more raspberries if I tried hard enough thank `ee for the new batch

If you had bothered to read the guidance I was trying to offer, perhaps you would have got the point however your response is exactly what I`m talking about. So much, [ yet again ], for you wanting to learn and being willing to listen

i would`nt dare, it might be taken as behaving g*d like

And sinking fast I think