If my memory serves me correct, Malady actually agreed with most of it but did have a different opinion with the pack theory, and by different opinion, I mean she disagreed with it.

I do think that a lot of GSD's are dominent by nature, which is a quality that many were bred to have, probably what makes them such brilliant sheepdogs/policedogs.

Dominence doesn't mean aggressive, unless I misunderstood something in the post.

I was just curious, what does it mean when a breed is 'dominant'?

And is that different to an individual dog being dominant?

Hiya

No I don't deem the breed GSD to be a dominant pack orientated breed per sé. I think 'some' GSDs can show dominance, as is possible with any dog in ANY breed.

Also I didn't give any advice as such, I was replying to JodeeUK who insists that it's all a fable, and that we who have experienced it are mistaken somehow

If you are talking about Steve's advice, being as a general fix-it rule, well it wasn't quite that. What it said (or how I took it) was that if you are having certain problems, first of all look to certain things that 'may' or may not help the situation, just like any other trainer would do. It's a process of elimination.

None of the recommendations are treacherous or harmful, and if they dont work, no harm done, try something else. It's not like he said 'throw the dog on it's back, growl in it's face, pin it down for 10 minutes until it actively submits, then toss it into the garden in solitary confinement for punishment'

I think if more pet owners were aware that dominance 'could' possible be an issue, then more owners could act accordingly to resolve their dog's issues, before they are a serious problem, rather than say the dog is unworkable, resulting in the dog being rehomed, simply because it's owners don't understand it.

Knowledge is power, and the more you learn, the more you have to work with to resolve things and work things out.

I have read just about every training method there is, for all kinds of dogs. It doesn't mean I think some are completely wrong for certain breeds or owners, they just don't work for me and my dogs

& this breeder has working bred GSDs ? Have you ever met a pure working bred GSD(& I don't mean Obedience Longcoats, WT dogs, UK police dogs etc)GSDs that are solely bred for their working ability both with stock & protection work ?

No they are not like Malamutes, but they are by breeding exceptionally high prey drive, know no fear yet have superb temperaments with humans & other animals, however they do perceive themselves as the "pack"leader amongst any other dogs they meet & need educating from day one their man made limitations.

For example: I was out on our local common land with four of my dogs(ie male GSDs)none of whom was alpha amongst my dogs)when I saw several dogs of various breeds & non breeds approaching at speed I put all my dogs on lead except one(didn't have time to attach leads to all 4 & left my oldest dog until last) The approaching pack was not out to meet & greet they approached silently, hackles raised. They were met by my oldest boy, who simply stood his ground, tail up & on this toes(so to speak) I could here the owner of the other dogs screaming to me to get my dogs on leads as hers would "kill"them. I too stood still. As the dogs got within striking distance my boy took one pace forward & raised his lips. The other dogs stopped dead as if frozen, they didn't growl, they never made a murmur, my boy never growled he simply stood staring at them. My other dogs were also stood looking at the other dogs also silently by my side. As the owner came up to her dogs they did not move they were still held by my dog's stare & body posture. Her dogs silently, eventually, went back to her tails down & between their legs, heads down, never looking back at me or my dogs. After she had gathered up her dogs, she shouted I was lucky that my dogs were so laid back !!! otherwise hers would have attacked all my dogs. She was not aware that my dog by his "dominant" stance & stare had stopped her dogs, they had probably never met a dog that was not frightened of their numbers & approach. Much much later I saw this woman with a couple of her dogs in the street with my oldest boy by my side, her dogs started trembling & one weed itself & offered appeasement, across a main road, to my dog who hadn't even looked in their direction. No GSDs aren't dominant at all, that's why these dogs were held by my dog's body language, it must have been his colour !

I know that had I had only the three younger dogs with me then one of them would have done just the same, defended not me, but the other members of their "pack"

shepherds like to think they are dominant! but get past all the noise and bluster, they aint really that brave! LOL.

they make good guard dogs because they make a good show of it, which is good enough to fool the average human. LOL.

My mature GSD`s have all had this ability - it`s hugely impressive. Just noise and bluster? Maybe from nervous or young dogs. A well-trained, well adjusted older dog doesn`t need to bluster - a look is enough.
We were doing the `walk your dog past the other dogs and they`re not to react` exercise a couple of weeks ago. They all screamed abuse at each other until my GSD bitch ambled past them with a contemptuous glance in total silence. She will defer to me because I`ve spent over a year retraining her, but there`s no way she`s a wuss.

Just in case anyone missed this

Why are you so quick to label your dog dominant, when you are the one who vehemently tries to debunk the theory ?

I think the whole dominance issue is very misunderstood. I have seen several posts here alone, that explain away examples of dominance, which are in fact not dominance at all !

I'll invite you to test your theory, when I have my next GSD I think you will be most surprised. BTW GSDs do not make good "Guard"dogs they make good protection dogs because they are if from correct breeding, courageous unto death(you only have to read true stories of working GSDs in conflict situations(& I don't mean wars) If they were all mouth & trousers why are they the breed of choice for most countries armed & police forces.

I had a police handler once think that of one of my dogs whilst running criminal for me in training. He learnt the hard way & got part of his anatomy severely crushed by my dog as a result ! & it wasn't his arm !

Exactly. Noise and bluster is not dominance at all, but just noise and bluster