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Mese
Dogsey Senior
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Location: Cheshire , UK
Joined: Nov 2008
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09-10-2009, 02:05 AM

Two kinds of BC ?

Is there such a thing as an english BC ?

Toff and Gypsy have longer legs , a longer body & a longer muzzle than Teddy , but both are pure BC
I've heard them described as an English BC
It cant be because they are both from working stock because our Buddy was a pedigree from good lines and he looked almost exactly like Toff does

Teddy looks totally different , he has shorter legs , shorter body and shorter muzzle ... also his tail is a hell of a lot fluffier than either Toffs or Gypsy's are (though both of them have fluffy tails)

so am I just talking rubbish , or is there two kinds of BC ?
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mishflynn
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09-10-2009, 04:41 AM
Only One type of BC!!!!!!!!! Some people have this Idea that a welsh BC is diddy. There is No such Thing. People are just trying to impress you with their (lack of) Knowlegde.

One BC , lots of diffferent sizes, look at my two boys



& they are related on one line!!!!!!

There is a Welsh Sheepdog (welsh Hillman) Which is huge.Simialar to a BC but Different.

& From America a English Shepherd which is more Aussie like
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mishflynn
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09-10-2009, 04:43 AM
to add , there are different "looks" in different lines, but all BC!!!!
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Rookgeordiegirl
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09-10-2009, 04:59 AM
Only one!
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Tupacs2legs
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09-10-2009, 07:06 AM
yep only one
although,you can tell a new-zealand line collie a mile off imo
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oldshep52
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09-10-2009, 08:18 AM
Only one but in the one are many. The other day I had 14 BCs around me and only two were similar and only two not ISDS registered with known breeding line.

There is such a thing as a Welsh Sheep Dog and those that I have seen work sheep in a very different way to a Border Collie. The Welsh Sheep Dog Society has a website with some pix on.
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Moobli
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09-10-2009, 08:20 AM
Only one border collie, but massive differences in size, coat length and type, working styles, drives etc etc etc
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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09-10-2009, 09:03 AM
I love the diferences
In America they call em several different types
From what I rememver there is the McNab, a smooth coated leggy collie used more for cattle
The English, lots of coat more like and aussie
The Aussie - more solid, often merle (there is a belief that people with pups chopped the tail off the merles and called them aussies)
The Welsh - smaller
and some other 'types' that look a bit like a collie
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JoedeeUK
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09-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Originally there were two types of working sheepdogs, the taller slimmer hill dogs & the shorter slightly heavier lowland dogs & depending what type of terrain the shepherd/farmer worked they had the dog suited to their needs. Hill dogs had to often work against the commands of the shepherd if doing so would possibly put the sheep in danger when out of sight of the shepherd

However as travel has become universal these two types have been mixed & the overall standard of ability has increased.

Strictly speaking the only Border Collies come from the Borders of England & Scotland & England & Wales(clue is in the breed name Border ) this is why ISDS dogs are registered as Working Sheepdog(or Border Collie)& not Border Collies with the ISDS.

Working sheepdogs come in all shapes & sizes & Beardies that are now KC registered actually come from the bearded working sheepdogs.

The ISDS recognise the coat types smooth, rough etc & bought can be found in the same litters(Rjj has a rough coated sister)even though both parents are smooth.

Foreign Kennel clubs like one in the USA will register any breed that people decide to call their dogs-for example English Shepherds-not a variant of the continental shepherding breed but a type of working sheepdog.

Australian bred KC border Collies have at least one Kelpie bitch in their make up(despite their owners/breeders denying it)They are very closely bred from dogs sent out to Australia at the beginning of the last century, which is why they appear somewhat alien to working dog breeders/owners, being much heavier in bone & coat. The "header"dogs used in Australia are much more like the ISDS dogs, because they have been bred to work & not for uniformity of external appearance.

There will always be different types of Working Sheepdogs(or Border Collies)because one type will never be universally able to do all the work that they are used for. This is good for the breed as it shows that whilst they all are working sheepdogs(or Border Collies)they are still being bred for brains & not looks at least by the ISDS breeders. Obedience breeders look for something different in their puppies as they want them to do well in Obedience with high work drive, but lacking the independent streak that working dogs can inherit from their Hill dog ancestors.
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oldshep52
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09-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Great post JoeDeeUK!
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