'Pack' behaviour help please

OK, my boys have started to exhibit some rather annoying/worrying pack behaviour which I'd like to get rid of if possible...

We've had 2 demonstrations of this behaviour, both of which have followed the same pattern.

We alwys thought that Max was the more aggressive of the two, but now I'm not so sure!

On meeting a new dog (off lead, open space, owners consent etc), Max will do the sniffing thing, and then pretty much get disinterested and wander off.

However, Murphy will go in fast and bouncy and sort-of aggressive. He will pounce and jump and paw the new dog, just like he plays with Max.

Of course, the new dog won't like this (most don't) and will growl or snap at Murphy to tell him to go away. I'm fine with this.

However, as soon as this happens, Max will charge in and attack the new dog. I'm not talking all bark and no bite, but actual fighting, blood drawn, needs me to wade in and seperate them.

It's like Murphy starts the fight but Max finishes it. If Max isn't around, and a new dog snaps etc, Murphy runs off and doesn't want any confrontation. However, when both of them are there, Murphy seems to be full of confidence, as he knows his brother will step in and take over.

This has happened twice now, with all parties having small cuts and blood. I've waded in to stop it, as I know that as soon as I have hold of Max, he stops (and his bite inhibition with me is very good). One time was with an unneutered male and the other time with a spayed female.

Both times, I've been able to put one of mine on the lead, and the other has just carried on home/walking without any issues. I can swap who is on the lead, and they are fine.
It doesn't happen every time we meet a new dog - 8/10 times, both of the boys completely ignore the other dog when we are walking and we have no issues.

It just worries me that they have started to act like this. I can't always take them out seperately, and I don't want to either! For example, we are going camping at the weekend, so they will both be together all the time for days, and will have to be exercised togther regardless.

Any ideas of how I can break this cycle?

The only way you are going to stop this happening is to put both dogs on a lead before either of them greets other dogs.

As you say you cant predict when and with what dog its going to happen with.



I think Murphy going in fast and bouncy is play.. so not sure he starts it and Max finishes it.

My guess is that Max will pick up on the other dogs negativity and sees it as a reason to wade in...

I wonder does he react to dogs like that id Murphy is not around.

I have a friend who has 4 dogs one being a WHD and any excuse any negativity from strange dogs he will wade in.. the others may be playing with dogs one growl /yelp from any of them and he wades in.. like he is just waiting his chance.

Not sure how you can cure it, but for now , I would not let either aproach strange dogs... and maybe its a good idea to walk separately for a while, doing some obiedence training and one socialisation on their own.

I'd work on Murphy to stop him causing the problem in the first place. They are quite well trained, so can you not just tell him to leave other dogs and approach at a steady pace and get him to introduce himself properly. Yes I do now how hard that is having had a Boxer with exactly the same issue, but his was lack of socialisation at a young age due to breaking his neck. He basically had no doggy manners at all, lovely though he was, it was a pain in the butt. Like you it escalated because other dogs failed to appreciate his enthusiasm. He wasn't remotely aggressive but defended himself once the other dog told him off.
To be fair to Max he's only doing what my lot would do, attack one and you attack them all but you have to teach them to back off when told no matter what the provocation. It takes a lot of practice.

How much training have you done with both of them? It is a control issue and until you sort it you ought to have them on lead.

I would teach each dog in turn seperately that seeing another dog is a cue to drop in behind you and sit or stay behind you whilethe other dog passes.

It isn't something you are going to be able to sort out instantly and it will escalate if you don't tackle it.

Good luck!

rune

Part of the problem I suspect is that they are used to playing in a particular way with each other and therefore expect other dogs to understand this social interaction - of course not all dogs do. Plus the boxer itself tends to be fairly strong looking ie upright stance, dark face etc and this can be intimidating to dogs who are not sure at first of the bouncy play, and then added to that find the dog intimidating due to his stance...it's not uncommon with boxers sadly.

It's always good if possible for dogs to learn to play "gently" with different breeds, and this goes for all breeds really not just boxers, staffies etc although this can be really hard to arrange, but is best done as puppies at good pup classes

I agree with much of the above suggestions really. Also that it will escalate very quickly if it's not managed.
I'd train for lots of control, and moving behind can be very useful to teach.
Use lots of high value rewards to help with the training.
I'd also try to walk them separately from time to time, perhaps once or twice a week as one on one time will be beneficial.

Good luck

Wys
x

Thanks for your comments...

Both dogs are trained at classes seperately, and do very well with 'recall from distraction' exercises etc.

I would say that 80% of the time, maybe even more, they will greet another off lead dog politely and gently, and then go away. They are fine with small dogs.

Both have an average 'leave' command with other dogs, that is to say, they will usually ignore if told to, unless there is an in-season bitch being walked off lead (which often happens near us) or that kind of thing.

Part of the issue is, there seems to be no trigger for when 'it' will happen. The other dogs haven't been particularly good/bad/nasty/forceful, it's just that Murphy seemed to sense something about them. For the record, the un-neutered male was a 5 year old Boxer and the spayed female was a 2 year old collie-cross.

Seperately, both Max and Murphy were fine with these dogs when the other was on the lead.

Since I'm off this week, I've got the chance to do more one-on-one with them than usual, so will give that a go. Unfortunately, when I'm back at work, it is walks together, or someone won't get a walk in the morning or afternoon. They get 2 walks of 90 mins each day, plus about 4-5 hours of 'garden play' interspersed with training throughout the rest of the day.