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Abbas_786
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06-06-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54
Hmmmm, didn't know about all those terrible things being done to them, but again, I have only seen the pics on the t.v. for which the soldiers have been suitably reprimanded for. Who is telling us all this then, again the media, so how do we know all this to be true, apart from the released prisoner's stories? If these released prisoners are against the U.S. Govn and ours, then are they not capable of telling porkies then about their treatment and conditions?? Christ, when you think about it, you can go and sue someone for tapping you on the shoulder nowadays can't you, so why haven't these released people gone to a lawyer to sue the Govn. over their alleged mistreatment? The US Govnt. were up in arms about those pictures and they weren't half as bad as the things you have mentioned above are they, so surely they could do something about it now that they've been set free and proved innocent - yes?
most of the relased have filled action agianst the USA gov some have won pay outs last year a man was given $5million and as for mistreatment being porkies not only have we had stories from fomer detainess but also now from investigations carried out by the American gov itself. Also they have all been paid undisclosed amount by the USA gov for "flase in prisonment" also to prove something happened to you when your in a place like that will be very hard as no1 from the outside world is allowed even the red cross is not allowed to see detainess just the 1s the US choose so it would be very difficult. as for future attack pervention well these guy have been locked up for 3years now and subject to some very sick turtoure im pretty sure theyve more than learnt a lesson and what ever they were planning to do they wnt be doing it, also no point in keeping them there as an informant cuz they dont even know what day of the week it is let alone who is out there 2attack them 3years later right?
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Helena54
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06-06-2005, 04:02 PM
Yeah Abbas, but I'm afraid I don't really feel strongly enough on this subject to be able to continue in this debate, coz as you see I don't really know enough about it all. You have undoubtedly enlightened me though on what is actually going on in there, which is very sad indeed for those misfortunates who are completely innocent as you say. I very much think it was a case of the U.S being a bit OTT (as is usually the case with them!) in quickly gathering all suspects whether they were guilty or not, in the light of what happened to them and their Country don't you? They probably had to show the World too that they were being tough on the case hoping that it would put fear into those who were guilty, which it probably hasn't as the real terrorists don't care if they die anyway do they, they are quite willing to use themselves as human dettonators (?my spelling is getting worse!) Thankyou for your insight into this subject Abbas, as I really wasn't aware of all the things you have said.
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Abbas_786
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06-06-2005, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54
Yeah Abbas, but I'm afraid I don't really feel strongly enough on this subject to be able to continue in this debate, coz as you see I don't really know enough about it all. You have undoubtedly enlightened me though on what is actually going on in there, which is very sad indeed for those misfortunates who are completely innocent as you say. I very much think it was a case of the U.S being a bit OTT (as is usually the case with them!) in quickly gathering all suspects whether they were guilty or not, in the light of what happened to them and their Country don't you? They probably had to show the World too that they were being tough on the case hoping that it would put fear into those who were guilty, which it probably hasn't as the real terrorists don't care if they die anyway do they, they are quite willing to use themselves as human dettonators (?my spelling is getting worse!) Thankyou for your insight into this subject Abbas, as I really wasn't aware of all the things you have said.
Agreed! they just did it 2show they world who is boss! and now it is backfiring on them it has only caused more people to hate them. I can only imagine the reaction the USA would have had if some nation was holding theyre nationals like they are holding the people there im sure they wud have bombed and invaded them a few times over by now
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Hoggett
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06-06-2005, 05:15 PM
After I have posted this I'm running for cover, but, yes there has been mistakes made but, you don't get information out of people by being kind. I would like to tell you something about what used to happen in WW2 but I can't. All I'll say is we thought that the German's were bad, we were equally as bad to the German's we captured. So all I am gong to say is have you noticed how a lot of the bombings etc have calmed down since they put them people into this prison. Also how would they treat our people over there?

Sorry I could go on and on. You will never change my mind.

I apologise if I have upset anyone by what I have said but it is only my opinion.

Ian
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Hayley SBT
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06-06-2005, 06:32 PM
if they are proven to be terroists then i dont think they should expect to have been treated fairly! im sorry if every disgrees but anyone whos blows themselves up to kill other people are sick in my eyes!
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Alohacorso
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06-06-2005, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by Abbas_786
Agreed! they just did it 2show they world who is boss! and now it is backfiring on them it has only caused more people to hate them. I can only imagine the reaction the USA would have had if some nation was holding theyre nationals like they are holding the people there im sure they wud have bombed and invaded them a few times over by now
I'm trying to bite my tongue, really I am but how can you know exactly what is going on in any situation unless you are there? I am not trying to condone the acts of cruelty perpetuated by any country, ever!! I'm just saying that to debate this subject and to speak with such conviction of things that have not been indisputably substantiated is just not fair.

Please remember that over 6,000 innocent lives where lost which would propel any nation to protect it's people! It wasn't an arbitrary act without any sort of justification.

To those that have shown a willingness to let the innocent be proven guilty, I commend you.

Aloha.


Edited to say there have been many times throughout history that Americans have been held without proper jurisprudence (or humane treatment) on foreign soil. I don't recall any bombing raids to get them back.


now....Back to biting my tongue.
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craig
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06-06-2005, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by Abbas_786
Well we have had i think 6britons released from this place all captured due to so called "CIA oprations" the same CIA that told us Saddam had WMD's btw and all 4turned out 2be TOTALLY INNOCENT so law obiding citizens just like me and you at the end of it all. Also would like to add the 100 or so that have so far been released have all been with out charge so they to have been totally innocent law obiding people. as for the people that are theyre im sure some are gulity and if they are they should be put on trial and they should be given humans rights and treated like people. The people that have been released have told of things such as being tied down on the floor in the sun for days on end, loud music being played in theyre cells to deprive them of sleep, have dogs set on them, being beaten and humilated in front of female soliders,being urinated on my soliders,injected with God knows what etc. Theyve had most of them locked up for 3years now if they infact who they say they are "the worst of the worst" lets see them put on trial and given the death penalty! also untill last year they were 4 people held at the base that were under then age of 16 1child being 11 at the time of his arrest(he threw a rock at the US convoy) im not sure what kind of 11year old he must have been if he had 2be shipped half way across the world and put in such conditions. I think they should put these people in court and give them a fair trial with the things they are being held there with bearing in mind 90% of them dont even know why they are there in the 1st place.
i still dont think that the british people were inosent, they just could not prove their conections, i meen what were they doing in that country during the conflict site seeing.
and having loud music played to deprive them of sleep is still far better than having your head cut off with a knife,
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Hoggett
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06-06-2005, 09:28 PM
I wish I could actually say what I want to say...........But my computer would blow up!

Ian
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Graeme
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06-06-2005, 09:38 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that while we go to Iraq and Afghanistan to promote 'Democracy' through violence we are holding (innocent?) people without charge, without telling them their charge, and in inhumane conditions (bordering on torture)

This is not the way to go about telling the world your way of life is the best way of life.

Graeme
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Graeme
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06-06-2005, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Alohacorso
Please remember that over 6,000 innocent lives where lost which would propel any nation to protect it's people! It wasn't an arbitrary act without any sort of justification.
I'm sure that's the way the Terrorists see it too when they attack us

Graeme
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