Very well said indeed!!
Exactly - no reason to stop people saying "positive" or saying people are using "positive methods" or even "negative" as the people who matter, the general public, understand this!

Doesn't mean they are not clever, it just means they haven't studied the science bit and that's up to them after all.

If people are interested and want to go further as some have, that's up to them as well.

I'd never shove it down people's throats. Also when owners have problems they want to understand what the other person is saying, not be glazed over with operant terms and phrases for goodness' sake.

Mini Haha
Positive and negative what /why/who.
I don't know enough about what is 'positive' or 'negative' training to get into a discussion about it

Clob
That is in conflict with the topic title which is positive/negative/e-collars, so as you have stated that you cannot get into a discussion about it are you posting to ask a question or time waste by disrupting the topic?

Mini Haha
having been taught to train dogs by people who were around long before such terms became fashionable

Clob
Again, the topic is about fashionable words not whats not in fashion.

Mini Haha
Most people who come to dog forums aren't interested in discussing the technicalities of dog training , they just want bit of advice from someone who has tried methods that have worked

Clob
Those people probably read one or 2 paras of the beginning of this topic, IF, they opened it at all, and go to topics which were more interesting to them, why do you have a problem with people ‘not’ reading this topic, they don’t, I don’t, you do, why?

Mini Haha
I am not a dog trainer just someone who has successfully trained dogs over many years with the use of time, patience, constancy, kindness and common sence.

Clob
The topic of this thread is positive/negative/e-collars – how each individual of the nations 10 million or so dogs trains their dogs is as far off topic as it can get.

Mini Haha
On the odd occasion when I have visited other forums I have seen people 'pushing' various forms of stimulation collars , they manage to turn every topic onto the subject

Clob
Yes, that’s like saying every time I go to Austria I have to eat sourkraut – on this topic, that is where you are posting now, I was asked what training methods I used, when I answered everyone was so enthusiastic about e-collars they have not stopped talking about them since, I mean you are one of the examples.

Mini Haha
so one can presume they earn commission on sales.

Clob
No idea, I have never sold them and I haven’t seen anyone here trying to sell any.

Mini Haha
people have an evangelistic almost fanatical approach ,to them the collars are 'cure alls' so arguing with these people is pointless.

Clob
The obvious answer, although like the rest of your post is off topic, is to leave those forums and post or read one your interested in on the hundreds or thousands available.

Mini Haha
I would never use any device to train a dog but then I have never needed to

Clob
Again that does not make any sense as to why you posted on this topic, you have no interest in discussing anything on the topics theme, so I ask again, have you posted to disrupt the topic or time waste, I mean you have not even had the courtesy to say “Hello Clob”.

Mini Haha
I leave such things to the people who are not able to train using any other methods.

Clob
EXACTLY – you have inadvertently focused and highlighted one of the most important welfare benefits of e-collars, of the 10 or so million dogs and owners with not enough time, inclination, fitness and those whose dogs would be/are at risk if all they could find were so called ‘positive classes’ have the solution

Those people and their dogs had nothing at all for over 40,000 years, now thanks to the development of modern technology they have the e – collar.

You see Mini Haha, it took you several paragraphs but you got there in the end, yours is an excellent contribution to this topic, it just took a little while before you got there, the first one, you are my hero minihaha.

clob my lad is 165 lb i am only 92 lb so you can see the ratio i walk and have trained in him compaired to me.
if i walked both of my dogs together i will have 265lb on the end of a lead which works out to over 2 and half times my body weight so if the methods i have used in training them to allow this to happen without any use of any type of shock collars on either dogs don't you see the results from the other methods?
it seems to me you only think of the e collars as a tool or method to train any dog regardless of size or breed or in fact if there is a real need to start with.

i have a trusting bond with both of my dogs they do as i ask to please and the fact i reward them is just a bonus to them.
i wouldn't want to form a bond with what i considered more than just a dog with this method, i can't see how you can form a strong bond with a dog using negative methods or tools that in your words annoy them to get results you want.
i wouldn't shave my dogs coats as they are both show dogs as well just so i could have the prongs touching the skin.
i got leo's because i wanted a dog with their coats and manes not to cut it down or off.
toby is a working pat dog if he wasn't trained do you honestly think they would allow a person of my size into a hospital visiting kids with a dog i had no control over?

Patronising is a big word isn't it Clob?
How you can expect people to say a cheery hello is beyond me when you show such attitude.

400,000 years of living with our canine companions gives us the ....e collar.
OMG if that were even slightly true, if i thought for one minute that the majority of people would stick one of those things on their pets and use it...I'd move to a remote desert island now.
What does it say about us as a species that the best thing we can offer our companions is an e collar? OMG. (Shakes head in hands).
Thankfully I've been a dog owner long enough to know that the majority of people aren't like that. Phew, in fact the vast majority of people want to be kind to their companions because they know what they'll get back in return.
You obviously don't Clob.

To have to resort to twisting someone's words totally to get someone to agree with you says it all. You will have no converts here Clob.

And Clod still hasn't answered the very relevant question (relevant to the topic anyway) I asked, when will it be answered?

I am waiting and waiting...

Dearie me

Wiskid
And Clod still hasn't answered the very relevant question (relevant to the topic anyway) I asked, when will it be answered?

Clod
Which one? you have answered non of mine and a lot of your posts I did not read when I noticed sensible posts to answere on instead.

Firstly sorry you missed my greeting Clob .....
http://www.dogweb.co.uk/showpost.php?p=641654&postcount=7
..I notice reading through this thread you are a little short on greetings too.. lots of quotes but few greetings ...

Why did I post in this thread ? I think my post speaks for itself.

..What I don't understand is why anyone should promote these collars with such a fanatical ferver...very odd!.

Denis/Clob didn't you used to be a supplier for was it Tri-tronic or Dogtra ?

Ah, methinks you are trying to get out of it because you know you are wrong about your understanding of the theory! Ha!

Just deleting - duplicate post