Hi Lauren,

I have nothing to add as you've had good advice from others who have lots of experience since I posted at the beginning of the thread. I was just wondering - have you/Jake seen a vet yet? What was the outcome? Have you got a second opinion re his skin, ears, eyes etc? I found out in Aug/Sept time 2008 that Zane (my big GSD) had sarcoptic mange. It cleared up very quickly but needs to be tested for really. It may look like mange but could be something completely different and if Jake has been unwell for some time and now has mange (there are different types of mange) then this will add to his frustration and ill feeling.

One thing I will add though - please invest in a collar. Then at least if anything goes bad between yourself and Jake, should he try to bite you again at least it won't be your face in the way if he's wearing a collar. it means only your hand/forearm would be bitten. Of course this isn't any more acceptable than the bites you've already received but a bite to the face is far more scary, both for yourself and anyone around you. I remember when our Doberman (I was about 9 years old) bit my younger brother on the face and neck. He was PTS 2 days later even though he gave clear warning signs.

I don't think you should consider having Jake PTS but you certainly need to sort out his medical conditions and do some intensive training with him. Give him clear boundaries and NEVER deviate from those.

I have a bit of an issue between Ellie (GSD/Akita), Yiannis (GSD) and Buddy (Nor. Buhund) right now but to deal with it I'm not even giving them an inch. They can't get away with anything if I don't give them the opportunity. Jake must know that you are the boss and that really he needs your consent to do something. it will make your lives much easier and more enjoyable if you do this. It will be hard work to begin with but will become second nature to you. Start some training classes once Jake is well enough and go back to basics with him on everything. In a short time you'll have your happy, loopy jake back.

Laura xx

What age is Jake?

Lauren went to bed last night worrying about you and Jake. Now here goes a really long post (sorry).

Had a good think about how to put some things across for you without sounding like I am having a go at you which I truly wouldn't.

So here goes.

As said in my previous post I think personally for me the discomfort is a factor in this. His teenage years are upon him that doesn't help.
You have been emotional I believe I haven't read your thread but if you have that could also be a factor. His hormones are are all over the place too so not a good situation but not unresolvable.(sp)

I have very emotional days and I know when I am emotional Ollie and I have not always see eye to eye on things and neither have any of my other dogs its like they pick up the weak spot and pick on you, till they get over the teenage stage and settle then they come and give love. But from my experience it does affect a young dog you can't help it but you have too learn too work with it and with Jake and try not too give yourselves any tasks that are going too try you both on those days.

You say you have always picked him up and he hasn't minded. Now he is growing up he may mind it may be uncomfortable for him he is a quite a large dog I believe.

The collar is a good idea because if he is somewhere and you don't want him too be there and he challenges you and you go with the advice of the long line you can approach him with a treat and calmly and confidently go too him and while giving him the treat out of one hand calmly clip the house line on the collar then immediately have another treat too use as a lure and coax him down in a happy good boy Jake voice immediately all four feet are on the ground give him the treat then ask him too sit and give him another treat for doing all you have asked with no arguments.

I personally would not tap him not even lightly now something there he is disliking. Again he is a teenager and showing you what annoys him plus not feeling well. I know when I am in pain or discomfort I am grumpy so dogs are the same they can only tell us one way they do not like something and that is growling or biting. I think there may have been a subtle warning sign that you did not pick on.

I believe he has 3 breeds in him as far as you are aware I would have a look and do some research on all of these breeds and see if you can apply some training relevant to each of the breeds you read about towards Jake and get a feel for why the particular breeds in Jake are like they are what they are bred to do in life and what presses their buttons good and bad.

I would use my voice too always a happy jolly one when he is good and doing what you ask and just lower it a little when he isn't I find it stops Ollie in his tracks I do not have too shout or become hysterical just lower it and he knows I am unhappy with his behavior.

None of this is going too work over night you have too sit down decide how you want him too be and how you are going too deal with it and keep working on it you cannot change the rules slightly or have a day off regardless of how low you may be feeling in fact on a low day it is more important too give out the right signals too him. A trainer and a good one who uses only positive methods would be a good idea it gives you the pointers you need as any good trainer will not train your dog for you but train you how too train your dog.

Lastly I am not knocking cross breeds it is just a point I will make I have owned cross breeds too so certainly wouldn't knock them. You do not know his parents there could be some sort of problem there from genes although this isn't always necessarily a problem as most things done the right way can be worked out. What I am trying too say is Ollie is a pedigree comes from amazing parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents, he does not have their easy going temperament he is nervous always has been even though we did as advised especially with his breed socialize and take him all types of places it hasn't made a jot of difference he is nervous jumpy around noises territorial and wary of most strangers. He will also sometimes not always if asleep object to you stepping over him he will growl we have learnt this and work round it, in our house the saying let sleeping dogs lie is strictly adhered too none of us then including Ollie get stressed when we needn't. We look upon Ollie as our special needs boy.

We have had problems me especially but never biting but I have had the grabbing at the arm in excitement we worked on it and worked it out of him by giving a command to get a toy which he does most times now but if he doesn't he has learnt too take our hand or arm gently to lead us in when we have been out. Maybe I have learnt too read him from very young and I also think after having too return Zanta which I will always regret I made special effort with Ollie he wasn't going anywhere. I feel now that if I had worked with Zanta and hadn't let our incident frighten me so much I would still have her, I too like you had got very low. I am certainly no dog trainer and do not know half of what some people on here know but I do work by gut instinct with my dogs and it has worked for me. My first dog Max a mix of Australian shepherd and rottweiler (sp) was a nightmare too. Never biting but so so naughty he drove me too distraction but he turned out to be the most loving dog and will always hold an extra special place in my heart because when after all the hard work had finished we only had 2 years of him being such a good boy and so loving and he had to be pts because he was so ill.

Ollie is at that stage now of being just about where i have wanted him too be behavior wise although he will always carry his problems but it is not an issue we work round them.

Well if you have read all this well done and thank-you and I hope it has helped a little.

I think you will find everyone who has posted (long posts and into the earlier hrs by some) is on here side, otherwise why would we bother .

There has been some excellent advice given in this thread, it is now up to Lozzi to decide how to utilise it.


I have to agree with the above,

lozzi , you opened this thread for help, thats what is being given, but for what ever reason you are closing your mind to all the advice that has been carefully explained to you,

You have two choices , Lozzi, listen and accept what you used to do , and what you can now not do are two different things...or ignore all the advice and Carry on as you are.

If you continue to take the stand, it does not hurt him, he does not mind me doing it... then it wont be long before we see another "help" thread from you.

I am not including myself here, there are some very experienced people on this board, some have given you incredibly good advice and a whole new insight into the canine mind for you to understand.

It seems you are not listening and simply becoming defensive towards people, that will be a shame as it will close your mind to all help you have received, and it will also stop many members from bothering the next time when you come for help. (who wants to spend hrs typing advice for it to be thrown back in your face).

You need to understand, 2) Jake is no longer that little puppy , you could do what ever to, 2) what ever you have done in the past has set you up for whats happening now, 3) please listen and take the advice as its meant....to help, not criticize


You also need to get Jake to the vet, as I am sure what ever is going on with him, has shortened his fuse , and is escalating this problem.

Re- your vet, some vets dont straight away do a skin scrape, my own vet does not, he says that unless you are actually scraping where the mite is , it will not be conclusive, and as the area will be sore and inflamed , it will be painful for the dog, so the way some vets will go (mine does) if he suspects DM then he will treat the condition, with Advocate, along with a course of steroids , to help with the inflammation and itchiness.

So I would not be so unhappy with the vet, for not doing a skin scrape straight away.

Although if she suspected mange why give you "stronghold" ?


You need to take him back tomorrow and have her (or another vet) check him over again.


I am sorry , you are taking all the advice in a negative way , people are trying to ensure Jake is not going to be a dog that ends back up in rescue...sorry if you dont like that, but the sad facts are , if you carry on this way, he IS going to bite you again, or worse someone else. the problem will only escalate, it wont get better without you receiving help.

This is what happens when you corner a dog.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLnjiISsOo

That's a really interesting clip. The dog was oozing warning signs immediately before the attack and neither of the men (including his handler) picked them up. It just shows how easy it is to miss them.

I could see a lot signs from that dog that would of made me back off not lean over it which is the worst thing you could do.

Thats common sense, the HANDLER should of seen that coming, not the reporter! I would imagine anyone could see what the dog was going to do and how uncomfortable it was, entirely the handlers fault.

Very good video,

Even after the attack the handler is talking rubbish.

I"m the pack leader, he is second in command, and he was doign his job in protecting me!!!

What rot, the dog was felt threatened , simple as!!!!!!

Oh Bless him, that dog gave warning after warning. To me it was like this

"oh im stuck here, between two men,oh hes getting too close now (licking & Ears) i still cant get away the lead is so tight & im so not liking this, (more tongue out & flat ears) why is this person still coming at me,**** hes over the top now,FFS....BITE "

Poor dog, his handler is a idiot, you cant really blame the reporter if he didnt know dogs, but his handler should have noticed & would have been able to feel the tension on the dogs body, also you would have thought the camera man would have thought there was something wrong .
Anyway.... Good signs from the dog, not picked up by people, brill link thanks!

Its also a good link in this case of this thread as it shows people doing nice things to the dog , but the dog still being clearly uncomfy.