Dog on dog aggression and reasons/triggers (update @post 68)

Hi, so I've only just joined and obviously already have a question.

The dog I'm going to rehome with me in about a month is a 3 year old staffie bitch. In general I can say she's absolutely lovely, friendly, playful and learns very quickly.
She still lives with her owner until I move into a new flat in April. So until then my boyfriend and I try and walk her as much as we can as she doesn't really get walked because her owner is heavily pregnant.
She told me Ella doesn't like other dogs and has had little fights here and there. But she's only really aggressive towards other dogs when with a female. Apparently she's very protective or her owner.
I have no experience with aggressive dogs, I have to admit. My previous dogs didn't particularly like other dogs, but they were more the fleeing type.
So this is what I've observed so far with Ella:
I went to walk her on my own the other day. She's brilliant off the lead, comes back when called and is obsessed with her ball. She ignores other dogs if they stay out of her way. But one big bouncy golden retriever wanted to play with her when she was on the lead and she lunged at him. She didn't growl or bark at all. So that's why I just take her on the lead whenever I can see a dog that's off the lead and comes towards her. Another time I was out with my boyfriend and the same happened again when I had her on the lead. This time it was a big GSD who approached her. Again it was me who had her on the lead. So on the way back we tried something different: When I saw a big Doberman running towards us, my boyfriend took her on the lead and I gave them some distance. This time, her behaviour was completely different. She had her ears pinned back, tail tucked away and looked on the floor when the dog sniffed her. She was growling a little bit, but didn't lunge or anything.
Before, with me, she didn't show these signs of fear, she had her tail and ears up and tried to chase the dog away.

Does anyone know or have experience with this kind of behaviour? I'm definitely going to see a behaviourist when she lives with us but until then I'd like to find out as much as possible. She clearly doens't like other dogs and finds them threatening if they are bouncy and come towards her. She doesn't mind dogs who ignore her. I can pass a well behaved dog on the lead and she doesn't even look at them.

I'd appreciate any input! Thanks!

Can you describe the 'aggression' or fights she's had in more detail? From your post she just seems uncomfortable when approached by dogs, lungeing in itself is not necessarily aggression.

Would you like something big and bouncy moving towards you? You'd probably ask for some distance?

Seeing a behaviourist is an excellent idea, he/she should be able to give you a better idea of what is going on and how to best treat it. Although you seemed to have done ok so far.

I don't know much about her previous fights, apparently she got into a tangle with another staffie who attacked her so that's sort of fair enough.
Whenever she lunged I so far always had her on the lead so couldn't really see her face. She just seemed really alert, I tried distracting her with her toy but when the other dogs were at a certain distance she just kind of threw herself at them (into her harness). My boyfriend said she showed her teeth.
That's why I'm not too sure about where it comes from. I reckon she's scared of other dogs as a result of poor socialisation and personal dislike. The fact that everybody always puts her on the lead when other dogs approach probably doesn't help but I can't risk just letting her go and seeing what she does, in case she does attack the other dog.
And I find it strange she shows very different behaviour when she's with my boyfriend as opposed to when she's with me.

Again, showing teeth is not necessarily aggression, just a warning, asking for space.

I would be working on distracting her BEFORE she starts rearing up and getting tense. Find the distance at which she starts getting tense or alert and then go back to where she was 'comfortable'. Once you know the distance start playing with her in this 'comfortable zone' when other dogs appear. If the dogs are moving towards her, walk away, feeding her lots of treats as long as she is not reacting to the other dogs.

In the meantime, if possible exercise her in an large open area where other dogs are at a distance. And teach her to focus on you, first without distraction, then adding distractions.

Don't forget - your state of mind will affect her - so breath deeply and think positive.

not what you want to hear but I'd advise against taking him on.

Bull Terriers were bred by idiotic humans to fight. and yes, I know there are thousands of very friendly ones around but you'll find it very difficult to stop a bull terrier with this fighting instinct because thats what motivates them more than anything else.

There's a guy at my dog club that rescued a second Bull Terrier recently but had to take it back to the rescue centre because without any warning it would grab his other SBT and refuse to let go. This was after weeks of showing no aggression at all.
Also the guy is very experienced with the breed and with training.

I know many people here will not agree, as the popular sound bite is "it's not the breed, it's the owner" but to take on a SBT that's already known to be aggressive and without having experience, I'd have to strongly advice against.
Sorry, but I can only tell you what I believe.
Good luck, whatever you do

I sounds to me like she has had some experiences with other dogs that she did not like.

She sounds like she is doing all she can to warn the other dog away. real Dog aggressive Staffords in my opinion tend not to give any warning, they wait until the other dog is in reach and go for it.

I would work at building her confidence in herself and you and don't allow ill mannered off lead dogs to ruin that by distracting her and moving away from those situations

Hi Florence - I wasn't going to respond and then I saw Shane's posting and felt I had too. Prejudice against these breeds are rife. ALL dogs are capable of reacting - it's just the staffie breed that gets highlighted and to say that the fighting instinct is what motivates them more than anything else is pure twaddle and lifted straight out of the daily mail I suspect. See my dog with another dog and a boomer ball and I know which one he would be more motivated by!

My boy was a rescue, I know nothing of his background, except he was found as a stray in Wells, Somerset. When he came to us he was good with dogs, after a month or so he started showing signs of aggression to other dogs. I read all the books, took him to obedience training, read all the advice on here and then finally consulted a behaviourist.

I am not sure his aggression is any improved but the way we handle him has improved beyond recognition. The simple truth is we got to know him and it was the behaviourist pointing things out to us that we discovered what made him tick. I regularly practice BAT (Grisha Stuart's tehcnique I think) I walk towards another dog, the moment he reacts i.e sniffs the ground, grunts under his breath - I say his name cheerfully and we walk at right-angles to the other dog so I never force him to walk face to face with another dog because it unnerves him.

I am going to agree wholeheartedly with Muddymoodymoo - I suspect your dog responds to anxiety - the behaviourist explained it like a ladder of anxiety, he/she spots something, the adrenalin starts pumping, she/he feels it in his/her body and then WHAM goes for it. Learn the BAT technique and you catch the anxiety at a low level and help your dog stay or drop from that level.

Sadly because of Shane and others with the same attitude these wonderful dogs end up in rescue homes thereafter being pts.

It's funny isn't it how labradors, retrievers, those little lapdogs can get away with signs of aggression and it's reasoned away - but a staffie !!!

Good luck with your new dog and keep us updated as to progress.

Sandy

Sorry - just wanted to add I am not sure if your soon-to-be dog is different with you or your partner. It is possible. My first thought was it was more likely to be the dog coming up to her that made her behave differently.

The other thing I wanted to say is that as long as you put her on the lead positively when there is another dog around, i.e keep talking to her, treating her, I am not she will perceive it to be a negative experience.

Hi Florence You have already had some good advice from MM and Baxters, may I add a few suggestions too...
you say..
..you do of course need to put her on a lead when you see a strange dog but remember when a dog is on the lead you are removing one of the natural defences of 'freeze flight or fight' so it is not unusual for a dog to be more defensive when on the lead particularly if they have previously had a bad experience ..
I agree with Chris and I would not automatically assume the behaviour is down to aggression she may just be 'getting in first' as a warning. .

Can I point you in the direction of a similar thread which may offer some helpful suggestions on gradually getting your dog used to other dogs and distraction/avoidance methods

Advice needed when walking a sometimes aggressive dog


ETA If you do decide to consult a behaviourist I would choose one with care. I would ask your vet for referral and I would go for one belonging to the APBC see the list here...
Full Members of the APBC | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors

Forgive me for being brutal here - but isn't this where the handler, rather than the dog failed? What changed the dog's attitude to other dogs after one month?