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Location: Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 426
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17-10-2010, 08:31 AM
We all know that it's impossible to 'socialize' for every single thing your dog will ever come across - for example, we took up caravanning this year, and 5 year old Esau is contending with tie-out cables, flapping awnings, people walking right past 'his' territory with water-rollers, etc, for the first time. But what I DID teach him was 'what-to-do- when-you-come-across-something-new'; ie, be calm, 'wait', look at Mum, and see if she calls me in or gives me the 'OK' to go and investigate.
I taught this by taking him to various new situations as a pup and young adult - walking in the country, walking down the High Street, a train-station, a bus-station, a cycle-track, a market, a mountain, lakes and rivers, a beach, a Pets At Home supermarket (brilliant place to socialize puppies!) etc, etc, as well as 'organized' training classes . . and just rewarding him every time he looked at me when something new appeared. Altho admittedly he found his own 'rewards' at Pets At Home . .
I think that's more important than specific 'meet other dog' play-sessions, because your dog is going to meet all kinds of dogs in all kinds of situations, and has to react well to ALL of them.
Anyway, that's my two-pence worth, LOL!
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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17-10-2010, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs 
Lack of socialisation though doesn't necessarily predict a negative outcome.
Interestingly, whilst a general lack of early socialisation can lead to an inability to cope in many pet dogs, it doesn't appear to work in the same way, with some working dogs.
During my years training my dogs as sheepdogs, I have encountered a number of situations where puppies have what appears to be a severly impoverished upbringing in terms of socialisation. And yet the majority of these dogs, as long as they then go on to understand fully their "job", working sheep, are utterly able to cope with almost any situation as long as they are working or are waiting to work. Their focus on their role appears to overide some of their other survival instincts.
Interestingly, levels of unfriendly dog to dog behaviour (despite a common lack of socialisation) is lower at sheep dog trials than at any other dog place I have encountered. "Dog to Dog Aggressive" acts are generally dealt with swiftly and often harshly by their handlers and again, in this situation the dogs natural behaviour seems to be commonly overridden, by its need to please its handler.
It appears to me, that dogs that have a defined Role in life, are somewhat oblivious to their surroundings and other animals and dogs, as long as their focus on work is activated. I think that this is true of pet dogs too, the more demanding the dogs life in terms of having clearly defined boundaries, rules or roles, the less effect lack of socialisation may dictate.
I think anyway
. What d'ya reckon?
It ain't easy! Yes the dogs have a role but take them away from that role and you have a problem.
Believe me I know!
rune
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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17-10-2010, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs
Should puppies be socialised with other puppies and or adult dogs?
If so, to what extent?
And if not, why not?
And and what if anything would you propose should happen instead of the time spent socialising??
.
I believe puppies Should be socaised, MAINLEY with adult dogs, but also with dogs of all ages
I dont beieve that alot of puppy to puppy play does the pups any good, it does not teach them adult manners or when to stop.
I dont realy agree with puppy socailistation classes, Puppy trainng GOOD,
a class for a "puppy party" romp BAD (in general)
Id want the puppies to be meeting dogs of all ages & also people of all types, BUT id also want the pup to be played with MAINLEY with the owner. Its a pet hate of mine that in a "obession" to get the puppy "socailised" that the bond between pup & owner goes out of the window, & the pup puklls towards every new person /dog it sees.
Thats certainley not what i want, I want ME to be the centre of my dogs world & certainley more interesting than Bob Jane & little smokey across the road.
Jmo,
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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17-10-2010, 08:42 AM
Originally Posted by rune
Part of JR's theory (correct me if I am wrong anyone?) is that if the dog plays too much with others it will not bond with its owner. Also that adult dogs should not tell pups off as it can adversly affect them. Play fighting should be discouraged as it is practisinga behaviour that you don't want the dog to perfect.
IMO play fighting teaches the dog its limits and those of other dogs, older dogs teach the pup manners and the bond with the owner shouldn't be affected---I have never found that it is.
rune
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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17-10-2010, 09:46 AM
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Location: UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 709
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18-10-2010, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by rune
Try getting that dog to live in a rescue kennel whilst waiting for a new home because the farmer has decided it isn't good enough----then try getting it to be happy with TV, hoover etc and go for walks in towns, along roads etc.
It ain't easy! Yes the dogs have a role but take them away from that role and you have a problem.
Believe me I know!
rune
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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18-10-2010, 08:53 AM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs
Yeah I know that Rune. Iv rescued collies too. I just find it interesting that when a dog is focussed on work, it can forget all the other "stuff" around it. Which leads me to ponder other related subjects.
FYI I had a 'rig' dog who was a pain at agility shows as there is always a bitch just out or coming into season especially at week long ones. He would NEVER dream of leaving me when working in the ring though, even if a dog in the queue had interested him previously. He was a collie x retriever.
rune
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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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18-10-2010, 09:22 AM
Originally Posted by PONlady
It's not so much 'socializing with other dogs' as 'socializing to new situations' that's important, IMHO.
We all know that it's impossible to 'socialize' for every single thing your dog will ever come across - for example, we took up caravanning this year, and 5 year old Esau is contending with tie-out cables, flapping awnings, people walking right past 'his' territory with water-rollers, etc, for the first time. But what I DID teach him was 'what-to-do- when-you-come-across-something-new'; ie, be calm, 'wait', look at Mum, and see if she calls me in or gives me the 'OK' to go and investigate.
I taught this by taking him to various new situations as a pup and young adult - walking in the country, walking down the High Street, a train-station, a bus-station, a cycle-track, a market, a mountain, lakes and rivers, a beach, a Pets At Home supermarket (brilliant place to socialize puppies!) etc, etc, as well as 'organized' training classes . . and just rewarding him every time he looked at me when something new appeared. Altho admittedly he found his own 'rewards' at Pets At Home . .
I think that's more important than specific 'meet other dog' play-sessions, because your dog is going to meet all kinds of dogs in all kinds of situations, and has to react well to ALL of them.
Anyway, that's my two-pence worth, LOL!
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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18-10-2010, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by wilbar
I think you're talking about "habituation", rather than socialisation when you refer to situations & inanimate objects.
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