nice pups, they look cheeky little monkeys xx

Well I wouldn't say to anybody, and have made clear in this thread, that just because a dog is a cross it is therefore healthier, but statistics and genetic science both say it is more likely to be that way.

Certainly if you do not know the provenance of a dog, any dog, you should be very careful about it's health. There is so much that could have gone wrong with a dog of unknown origin, the genetics but also the environment it grew up in which has been suggested plays a larger role in determining whether a dog (unless they are born with grossly abnormal anatomy i.e. the bulldog ) goes on to *suffer* from HD or not, and that is an importnat distinction to make.

A reasonably bad hip score, it would seem, does not predispose a dog to a life of pain, as you quite rightly say and it should be repeated, caring for your dog properly, keeping it's weight at a good level, the right type of exercise, correct feeding and upbringing in the first year, can all prevent a dog from developing and HD related disorders. Common sense really.

Equally, it would seem, even a dog with a good hip score, from low rated parents, can go on to suffer HD related problems when it is not treated well. It is important to note HD is not just about genetics, you need to be more careful with dogs prone to a lesser degree of it, but equally you need to be careful with all dogs.

You do....but it sure helps if you know what your dealing with

You seem to be showing little concern that you did this mating without knowing any potential health issues you dogs may pass on to their offspring and more so even defending yourself for either not being aware or not wanting to shell out the money to discover - methinks - from what you are saying - you would have gone ahead with this no matter what the results were.

Its a very sad situation really.

Good luck to you and your dogs

Well if you consider checking their backgrounds and doing research on all the issues little concern, then I am sorry you feel that way. I still maintain the best way to check a dog for genetic problems is to check it's history, as I've made clear, HIP tests are inconclusive except in extreme circumstances (i.e dogs that suffer pain from birth) and most eye disorders cannot be passed on. My only regret, now, is not checking for PRA but I was unaware of this and no vet has mentioned it to me either. That said, the risks are very small anyway.

So, if you can suggest anything more I could have done, except obtaining an inconclusive HIP test, please share your thoughts, because I've sure as hell not bred a German Shepard, Retriever or Bulldog.

What is wrong with breeding 'Retrievers'?

Absolutely nothing, just as there is nothing wrong with breeding German Shepherds, except they are prone to highly abnormal hip joints, the implication of which is you need to be very, VERY careful when breeding them to avoid uncontrollable and irreversible pain from birth.

How many of the dogs relations do you know - and how far back?

Did you speak to the people who bred your own dog to find out if the parents or grandparents had developed anything later in their lives?

What kind of work have you don with your dogs - why are they such good example of their own breed and what did you think would be better by crossing them?

As you could not find the relevant health tests for the BC or the BVA without being pointed towards it - your research seems fairly limited.

However- as I said - whats done is done. I will leave you now to have fun with your 2 pups - of course you will have done research into why keeping 2 pups form the same litter is not a good idea as well

Take care - I'll leave you be now

4 generations with collie, 3 with Springer. No mobility problems, arthritis or other major health concerns.

yes

I never said they where fine examples of their breed, I said they where both lovely, friendly, healthy dogs (what more do you want, their ears a certain length and a certain shaped nose???).

well, I'm pretty sure most people on here where arguing that HD was purely genetic (check the thread), it seems my research was supriour those peoples at least.

yes I have (ultra dependence being one good reason), and I am not keeping any of them.

How sad

Again, as I've said before, comments like this do no justice, you need to explain.