Fear Aggression

Hi,

I have a 2 year old neutered male bull dog who is growling at dogs and people. We've owned him from 8 weeks and have worked incredibly hard socialising him with dogs/people/ children etc. He has done puppy school, junior school and senior school and is obedient and trained. He has three good walks a day and is fed on a complete raw food diet. He is loved but knows his place and has never been spoilt. Since he was a puppy he has been attacked, unprovoked, by other dogs, where he would also just try to run away, never fight back. We live in a busy city and see lots of poorly socialsed dogs. He had always bounced back from these but since being neutered he is much more fearful. He has had all vet checks to ensure it's nothing medical, eg thyroid and we've worked with 2 very well respected dog behaviourists. We have dedicated the last months to this and have been absolutely consistent. However, things just seem to be getting worse and now we're nervous of taking him out due to the growling which would escalate if we didn't have him under control. We are miserable, stressed and depressed. We feel sick every day knowing we have to walk our dog and feel we have done everything we can. Is there anything else we could do/ advice you could give? Anyone had a similar expereince? Thanks so much inm advance! Also, he has never bitten human or dog.

Unfortunately one of the worse things you can do to a dear aggressive dog is to castrate it, this can(as you have found out)worsened the behaviour.

The vet should have used the Superlorin implant to see what affect castration would have on him. Once a dog has been castrated there is nothing you can do to put back the testosterone.

It is not uncorrectable & I would advise you to seek help from a T Touch practitioner.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry I should have made clear that before castration he was an extremely confident, well socialised dog with NO fear issues at all. We had him castrated due to him being constantly picked on, growled at and attacked by other dogs. On advice of the vet we had him castrated to try to reduce this happening, entire males have a threatening smell apparently. Now we've got a completely different problem!

Re growling at other dogs: does he do this when both on lead and off lead?

I only ask because my Lab goes beserk if he sees another dog, and he himself is on a lead. Growling, barking, jumping and leaping - looks like he would attack the other dog in a second, given the chance.

However, it's not aggression but frustration at not being able to greet the other dog. Is there any chance at all that this is what you are seeing with your boy...?

If it's definitely aggression, then what are the trainers/behaviourists saying about it...?

Whereabouts in London are you? Maybe we can recommend someone to you for a second opinion? Sometimes a new approach is called for, someone coming 'fresh' to the situation...?

Your vet should have still used Superlorin to gauge the effects of lack of testosterone on him. Had he/she done this it would have had the same outcome, but once the implant wore off he would have been back to his pre-implant status.

I don't understand where you vet is coming from telling you that entire males have a threatening scent to other dogs . The canine male pheromones are in their urine not a scent or smell given off by their bodies directly, your vet should have been aware of this.

Hi,

Thanks, yes it is on lead and off lead. The behaviourist says it is definitely fear aggression caused by a combination of him being attacked and then losing his testosterone. So, when he was entire he was attacked but had the testosterone to cope. Now he doesn't he is very fearful and is saying to dogs, stay away you're threatening. We've had full reports done and have just got a third opinion.

Being in a city it is impossible to avoid other dogs/people and our vet / behaviourist have both said to rehome to less populated area or euthanise (vet). We won't consider the latter as he has not bitten, but who wants a dog that is not reliable? He wouldn't be easily rehomed. Just feeling at the end of the tether as have no options!

Hi,

I've heard a lot of people with entire males have had problems with other dogs attacking them. I guess as 'entires' they do wee a lot, on everything, to mark their territory so maybe that's what the vet meant about them smelling threatening??

Change your vet.
No, seriously, change your vet.

A couple of good books are
Fight! by Jean Donaldson
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...onaldson&ajr=0
and
Behavior Adjustment Training: BAT for Fear, Frustration, and Aggression in Dogs by Grisha Stewart
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Adj.../dp/1617810509
Both written by top behaviourists.
Your dog can be helped - but it will take time and patience.
Have a look for a class that uses the BAT techniques?
Positive training will also give your dog confidence - as will walking with well-socialised, confident dogs. Can you find someone to walk with? Keep your chap onlead at first.
Don`t despair.
BTW - one of the best ways to avoid plonkers walking their out of control dogs is to change the time you walk. I find early morning good.

Thanks, have actually changed my vet yesterday! Been using BAT techniques for the previous months, LAT and 'find it' too. I can't find anyone to walk with and have resorted to walking at 5am!! It's so stressful! I think I just feel really down at the moment as nothing is working and I have to say I've never been so miserable as owning a dog, thought it was supposed to be fun?!! I know it will get better though, I just hope something changes soon

Nothing can come out in the urine that is not already present in the dog, the urine being produced in and eliminated from the dog without any additional external input.

As well as in the testis, testosterone is produced from the adrenal glands and circulates in the blood stream, therefore the scent can be apparent throughout the dog as the blood circulates the body and it affects the whole dog, hence some of the arguments against early neutering as it may affect closure of growth plates.

It is not necessarily a threatening scent but can be a challenging scent to other entire males.

It is also likely that information in anal gland secretions will be affected by gender, including entire or neutered.

Even with urine some dogs can, even to an insensitive human nose, smell very male as they have the odd dribble on themselves - dogs don't tend to finish urinating with a shake and many will either pee on themselves, or walk through immediately afterwards, thus further carryign the scent.

It is certainly true that many entire male dogs appear to recognise, and so target, other entire males without needing to wait for them to urinate first to establish the reproductive status.

Yes a temporary implant, with the benefit of hindsight, may have been a good idea, but hindsight by definition is never there before the problem and even then learning experience may have changed the dog's behaviour, even after the effects of the implant wore off.

I have also know a number of dogs who had put up with this behaviour from other dogs for a time and then, sometimes suddenly, got fed up with it (particularly with increasing maturity), decide that turning the other cheek is not working and opt to "get in first".

Once they find that does work, and can give them an adrenaline rush and a confidence boost, why are they going to choose to abandon an effective strategy, unless given a very good reason to do so?