Accidentally double posted.

I have to agree with this. I've spent 7 YEARS working with Rupert and I'm still finding things I haven't tried that may help.

I can't let Rupert off leash in the garden and the first few months I lived here I couldn't open a window without him going nuts. He's settled down now but would still chase given the chance. I have considered an ecollar but a) I don't think I could do it and b) i don't know of any decent ecollar trainer to help me. We've found a secure field to let him off on and if we go elsewhere it's a 20 metre line so he does get some freedom.

Can't speak for the OP but I got Rupert when I lived in Manchester. I knew he was a heep chaser but you don't generally see sheep wandering around in the city centre so didn't think it would be an issue. Then I met my husband 18 months later and just over a year ago we were sent here. We have sheep 2 houses away. Circumstances change, Rupert is far from an ideal dog to have here but I already have him so it's too late to decide I don't want a sheep chaser.

Just want to point out that it was not the "arsey" dog that she bred. The "arsey" dog was the one she rescued back. Would also like to point out that rescued dogs that are unsuitable for re-homing are put to sleep in many cases, so the use of an e-collar a couple of times seems the much lesser of the 2 evils. The dog is currently happy, healthy and well-behaved and hopefully will remain so. I also think it was brave to share this in the face of so much hate around the subject.

That said, I have never, nor would ever use an e-collar. I used to have an ex-racing greyhound who came back when HE felt like it and not a moment sooner no matter what I did or bribed him with. I walked him in an enclosed nature reserve, took a short walk to a bench and read a book until he was ready to go home. My kids never come when called either, I'd be put in prison if I used an e-collar on them. My dogs are family to me. I am the boss and they love me unconditionally, but they obey me out of love, not punishment, and not all the time! I can take a bone from my dog's mouth, but I would not expect it to ignore a roast joint sitting on the side. I have only a few discipline rules and every dog I've ever owned has known them and adhered to them.

I'm not sure how this is related to using a shock collar, Gnasher? Has this improved? there are ways to get dogs used to having their collars taken even after not so gentle treatment...

That is worrying indeed - was there any reason, any trigger? More to the point, are they OK now?


Could be many reasons for his alteration in behaviour...what methods had you been using for sorting out the fighting? his running off may have been related to those.

Agree with other Dogsey members, this is not ideal as there has been no timefor any one thing to work. I would be extremely surprised if any method worked with this time limit given that several were used. May I ask please who you went to for help? Not names, as that's not fair, but for example "dog whisperer" "positive trainer" " shock collar trainer" "degree behaviourist" "CM person" "behaviourist" etc.

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I think that was very unfair of your husband. Black sense of humour or not, that was unkind and also rather mocking of your concerns

And the truth is that it really, really can hurt, depending on the individual. Try it at a high level . I get it a lot from my car and believe me, it hurts, even though I know it is coming! I try my best to avoid it!

Did he try it on you? he should have done, to be fair. Having you try it on him is too easy.
Get him to try it on you and ask him to unexpectely turn it up to level 50 or so and leave it there for about 10 seconds. If it does not hurt, a lot, I'd be very surprised. If he has a Dogtra, they go up much higher of course.
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I disagree, I am afraid. I think your husband was wooed by people who are adept at talking about saving a dog's life. I think he then pushed this on you and pretended they do not hurt, possibly treating you as a "silly woman" who knows nothing about electricity, albeit kindly. He did not even try the collar on you!

I realise you are concerned a bout Ben, but I feel that you have taken a wrong turn here. You may be lucky and it may be that things improve, but ... if there is any kind of falllout .. if your husband presses that button when Ben is near another dog or animal or child, there may be hell to pay on a completely different level.

I am very worried that your husband has pushed you into this, thinks he knows all about it ( I take it he's not an experienced or qualified dog trainer or behaviourist?). Therefore he does not have the behaviour understanding to use this. Has he been told of the possible fallout effects?

I am just giving a link to a few articles as it may help avoid pitfalls with Ben ... the first one gives Case Histories of problems encountered, including a dog put to sleep becausae of shock collar use , and the second is more general.

One very big bit of advice - whatever you do, do NOT allow your husband to use the collar near to Tai, as if Ben thinks Tai has bitten or attacked him, there could literally be hell to pay. Warn your husband, please

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/negativ...-shock-collar/

http://www.apbc.org.uk/sites/default...nsultation.pdf this makes very interesting reading generally, but scroll down to the near end and the Case Histories. They make sobering reading.

Wys
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Just wanted to reiterate something about the pain levels, Gnasher. It is well known that the high levels of "electronic stimulation" (shock collars) are extremely distressing and painful.

This isn't a myth or anything to be debated, it is fact. It's in a dog training handbook written by an actual supporter of shock collars!

Wys
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I need to point out that the "arsey git" that gnasher always refers to is Hal whom she bought as a pup believing him to be half wolf.

Hal who Gnasher used as a stud, was always being described as arsey and a git, her words, Ben the dog she has used the e collar on, is that dog's son. What I think members are getting at , she used a dog of not the easiest temperaments as stud, and then seem surprised when his son isn't easier to deal with.

Ohhhhh, I get it now! My 2 year old bitch is very unsociable and I would have liked her to have a litter, but it seems that passing the trait on is not going to be a problem......she wont let a dog within 3 feet let alone get close enough for hanky panky!!

The law regarding sheep worrying:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/28

Taken from above:

"Penalty where dog worries livestock on agricultural land.E+W

(c)being at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) in a field or enclosure in which there are sheep]"


Wearing an e collar does not constitute 'otherwise under close control', or stop the dog from going into a field with sheep in it. Even if a dog is close to you when entering a field you cannot always see sheep when you first go into a field, they can be hiding under a hedge or in a dip in the field.

If a loose dog goes into a field with sheep in it (even by mistake) then the farmer would be well within his rights to shoot the dog. By the time you recall the dog it will be too late.

I would rather keep my dog on a lead in sheep farming area's than have it shot by a farmer.

I know of a person who was out jogging with his dog (husky) on local open heathland, the dog went round a corner just ahead of him and was shot by a farmer (he said it was worrying the sheep ). The man carried it to the nearby vets but it died in agony shortly after reaching the vets. The farmer was never prosecuted, even if he had been it would not have compensated the man for the trauma of loosing his beloved dog in such a terrible way.

Would I use a shock collar so that my dog could run free in sheep country?

No way. The dog would stay on a highly visible lead. That way I can guarantee 100% he would stay alive.

Sue

Such a sad story about the husky dog. I have heard similar stories, one of an afghan hound who was just in the same field, not chasing.

I too would be very scared that an off lead dog might get into trouble, as they are not deemed under control. I would never risk it. I blame those who put about the view that shock collars can "save dogs" because frankly there are plenty of instances where dogs will go through the pain to chase sheep.

David Ryan, who also works with sheep chasers, has had shock collar dogs trained exactly like Ben - slowly upping the level - they still chased sheep. That's (one reason why) he doesn't use them. Neither does Angela Stockdale, who lives at a different end of the country and uses different methods to DR; she still does not use shock collars. Yes they can work with some dogs, some of the time - but not with all dogs all of the time.

Why take that risk? YOu will never know what category Ben is in until it is too late

Wys
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