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Shona
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17-06-2007, 11:41 PM
if no medical probs are to blame it could be her pushing the boundarys, flexing her muscle a bit, if she is given privilages such as being on the sofa and so on I would restrict this, often the smallest changes to everyday living can have the most dramatic affects on behaviour, I have an email from a member of the forum who trains with me I will ask if its ok to post it, she had problems with her staffie bitch, not grumbling just not coming back to her and not giving a whiff about her, after a couple of weeks of my routine she has a new dog, no more pulling on lead, off lead for a good bit of every walk and no more running off with the first stranger that passes, all without anything except a few changes in her daily routine, if you want to pm me feel free to do so, but there are others such as patch on the forum with more experiance of rescues and collies and so on, hth shona x
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Shona
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17-06-2007, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Off topic (slightly) Just switched my mobile on after a couple of dormant days (work phone and all that) to find a message from Pete saying “Hi, not spoken since about 1997- getting married in the morning (she’s upstairs getting ready so can’t talk just now) I’ll call after Monday"

im totaly lost with this,????? but you have stirred the nosey git in me,
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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17-06-2007, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Fudgeley View Post
We have has her since she was a puppy from our local rescue. she is very friendly towards people but can be wary of other dogs. when she has met them she plays really well, we have had no aggression problems at all with her.

She is about 20 months old and could be described as a nervy dog in certain situations .She hates sudden or loud sounds ( she was fine before fireworks last Novenmber). She comes straight to me for reassuranceif she is worried about anything.She is very much a typical collie x, very active but generally obedient and well behaved. She does have a thing about stealing food if she can get it, although she does not wolf her own food down and leaves it in her dish for later.

She is very much my dog in the house, and responds to instructions from me with no real problem.

I hope this extra info may have helped.
To me (and this is purely my opinion, I'm in no way a professional behaviourist) it sounds a bit like a learned behaviour - a fear response in a way? Does she get chastised for trying to take food? Eg does she get "grabbed" by the collar a lot for trying to take food?

As an example my terrier x is quite a nervous dog, due to being ill treated previously. If you raise your tone of voice to him (if he's been naughty) and then go to pick him up he'd turn to snap at you, but then quiver like you'd just hit him if you know what I mean? In no way am I suggesting you hit your dog (I'm sure you know that! ), but the response just sounded similar to me. An automatic response as it were? Possibly towards food?

It doesn't sound like agression to me, but I really would take her to the vets just incase she's in pain somewhere.
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Ramble
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18-06-2007, 05:23 AM
hi
I agree with whats already been posted. A few changes in the house could soon sort it out, initially, if food is a trigger, I would exclude her from a room when you are eating etc.
You say she is 'submissive' when she realises it's your hand. Have you ever 'yanked' the collar slightly (an easy response to make) when you have had her by the collar?Do the children take her by the collar a lot (my son tries to with ours) if he wants them out of a room so he can play properly without them joining in!!! It sounds like she is becoming a bit sensitive around her collar area and that may be the issue,along with then being removed? What you don't want as a result of all this is her becoming anxious when you touch her collar. For now, I'd try to 'distract ' her with something else...call her into the kitchen, play a game with her etc, but try not to pull her by the collar.
Hope this helps and good luck with it. AS someone else said, a behaviourist would be a good idea (not because I think her behaviour is extreme, far from it, just because she is warning you and you don't want it to esculate.)
xxxx
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Fudgeley
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18-06-2007, 06:40 AM
Thanks everyone. Some good advice here. I will try the food separation and also give her a good check over this morning.Having slept on it I do still wonder if it is linked to the eye cream as we had to hold her collar whilst this was being appllied. She really didn`t like it at frst although she got better at the end of the treatment.Maybe she associates the collar with the cream?

Thanks to everyone who replied.
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CLMG
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18-06-2007, 07:04 AM
Oh dear, poor Fudge, my first thoughts were, is she in any sort of pain, I would have thought that if it was something from her past it would have shown up before now, if she now associates having her collar held with something unpleasant (eye drops) maybe try holding her collar and when she grumbles just calmly say no, and as soon as she stops, give her a fav treat and big praise and love, so she starts associating it with nice things, not that you probably need to be advised on this hope it sorts itself out.
Christine
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Wysiwyg
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18-06-2007, 07:14 AM
With an adult dog, if the behaviour comes on suddenly and without any reason it is often a medical cause and the best thing is to get a thorough vet check just to ensure this is not the reason, as has been suggested ...

If she's been feeling under the weather with an eye problem, this could well be something to do with it.

However, I'm not totally comfortable with what you describe in the first post ... I think it could be setting a scene for potential problem behaviour.

She stops straight away when she sees the hand, then acts all submissive.

This indicates she's not at all comfy with the hand in the collar or perhaps with being removed and it's possible that as she matures, she may start to object because she is in conflict.

I can also remove her bowl without her reacting at all.

Just wondering when you'd do this? as some people still recommend this, however it can lead to dogs becoming uncomfortable with this over time. It's great that she sits and waits for her food, though :smt001

(on this occasion it was my leg moving her body sideways from under a blanket.)

This is just an impression I'm getting, but it "feels" to me as if she's physically and emotionally sensitive and may be reacting partly because of this. Even if she is reacting due to eye problems, I'd want to start de sensitising her to having her collar taken and also start to train her to come away using food rewards.

I also agree with putting her away during meals etc to manage the problem, however if she's ultra sensitive she could see that as punishment so i'd also suggest giving her maybe her own stuffed kong or her meal, so that she realises she's not being excluded for punishment. It's a bit early and i was up late last night, so I hope what I'm typing makes some kind of sense

If in any doubt or if things get worse, you should find a helpful trainer near you on this site:

http://www.apdt.co.uk/index2.htm


Wys
x
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Fudgeley
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18-06-2007, 07:21 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
With an adult dog, if the behaviour comes on suddenly and without any reason it is often a medical cause and the best thing is to get a thorough vet check just to ensure this is not the reason, as has been suggested ...

Thanks Wys, I am checkinh her this morning and we are at the vets this week so I will ask her then.

If she's been feeling under the weather with an eye problem, this could well be something to do with it.

However, I'm not totally comfortable with what you describe in the first post ... I think it could be setting a scene for potential problem behaviour.

She stops straight away when she sees the hand, then acts all submissive.

This indicates she's not at all comfy with the hand in the collar or perhaps with being removed and it's possible that as she matures, she may start to object because she is in conflict.

We will try the positive association with hand on collar.When out walking I bring her to me if there are runners etc and sits calmly then whilst I hold her collar.

I can also remove her bowl without her reacting at all.

Just wondering if you do this to test her? as some people still recommend this, however it can lead to dogs becoming uncomfortable with this over time. It's great that she sits and waits for her food, though :smt001

Sometimes It is to add more food, if I have any scraps for her.

(on this occasion it was my leg moving her body sideways from under a blanket.)

This is just an impression I'm getting, but it "feels" to me as if she's physically and emotionally sensitive and may be reacting partly because of this. Even if she is reacting due to eye problems, I'd want to start de sensitising her to having her collar taken and also start to train her to come away using food rewards. I also agree with putting her away to manage the problem, however if she's ultra sensitive she could see that as punishment so i'd also suggest giving her maybe her own stuffed kong or something so that she realises she's not being excluded for punishment. It's a bit early and i was up late last night, so I hope what I'm typing makes some kind of sense

I love the idea of a Kong, as she will stop focusing on the other food. We have had no problems if eating at the table, it`s when it`s a quick sandwich on the knee or the kids with plates on the floor. Maybe we need to bring the food up off the floor. ( we have a sat night tea in the lounge watching doctor who...)

Wys
x
Thanks again for all the advice.
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Wysiwyg
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18-06-2007, 08:39 AM
We will try the positive association with hand on collar.When out walking I bring her to me if there are runners etc and sits calmly then whilst I hold her collar.

Good start - what I'd suggest though to really desensitise her is to use very tasty food rewards each time you touch/take her collar and do this several times a day. You could try say, roast chicken, something really nice. Talk to her in a happy voice, too. And smile In time the dog will usually tend to really enjoy the collar being taken as it is associated with overall, good things and not being taken away or removed from good things :smt002

Just a suggestion but it does work very well, as dogs learn not only from repetition but also, crucially, from association

I love the idea of a Kong, as she will stop focusing on the other food. We have had no problems if eating at the table, it`s when it`s a quick sandwich on the knee or the kids with plates on the floor. Maybe we need to bring the food up off the floor. ( we have a sat night tea in the lounge watching doctor who...)

Kongs are one of the most useful inventions ever!

What you could also do if she comes close to you whilst you are eating is to calmly get up and walk in to her so she backs off - however be sure you aren't scaring her, or causing her to be more reactive. Loads of praise when she decides to settle down. It may take lots of repetitions by everyone (would have to be very consistent here) but it works well usually :smt001 . The worst thing is having to get up and down like a yoyo for the first few times ...

Wys
x
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Hali
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18-06-2007, 09:59 AM
Just one other thought - with her current eye problem, are you sure that she is seeing properly - perhaps her peripheral vision has been affected?

If it is, she may not have been aware of the hand approaching, it may be more surprise/shock than anything else - as you say, as soon as she realises its a hand she stops.
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