DD, people are just pointing things out and giving their opinions. In recent times I've seen you mention things about certain CC breeders, I also read you say that you will only buy from a low number of CC breeders yourself, I wouldn't say your doing it just to slate other breeders, just expressing your orpinions, and there is nothing wrong with that. And whats the difference between me talking about excessive coat and you saying about 'the awful thick coat that keeps popping up'? Don't you shave your PP's? For your own reasons to keep them cool, they were brought up because of their coat, so how would it affect them if you didn't do it? Also the kc use the phrase 'fit for function, fit for life' if they are going to use it they should be open for it to be questioned, and be ready to proove they mean it, otherwise its a meaningless phrase.

Dont say I wont or will do certain things because of this and that, when I have never stated this and that!

I will only buy from a certain amount of breeders because they have the lines we follow, we are happy with previous dogs and have become great friends with the breeders. we have no desire to go down any other lines. So your right im not slating other breeders. There are many CC breeders out there who im great friend with, doing wonderful things for the breed. But their using different lines to us, and their dogs offer nothing to mums breeding programme no matter how nice they are - but then to be honest we really dont need to bring any more in. not sure what you was getting at but glad we cleared up that bit.

Also where have I said I shave the puffs to keep them cool? Thats not the reason at all. I shave them because its simply less work for me If I dont show them. simple. If I didnt shave them nothing would change?!? apart from me having to spend a couple of mins a day grooming, and extra grooming after walks. which is very worth it on a show dog. But we have rescue/pet puffs that quite frankly arent happy about being groomed to often and I wont leave them in a mess, so cut them down. glad thats also cleared up.

and where have I even mentioned your name Chaz or you talking about excessive coat??? I did a general post. But if the cap fits and you feel your slating show people, feel free to take it.


and to add you may have seen me post things about CC breeders.. Your point? I have given opinions on breeders.. due to proven 'facts'..

I'm pretty sure you've said its to keep them cool, including your b&w female If I've got it wrong and am confusing you with someone else then sorry but I'm sure I remember you saying that. I am talking about excessive coat, because like anything excessive can cause problems, and if that has occured because of the show fancy thats not my fault but I will give my opinions on different things.

It may well keep them cool and I may well have said it, but that doesnt mean its the reason for me doing it - just another plus..

The reason behind your "excessive coat" remarks is that you dont beleive a dog with a excessive skirt can do a job,

Even when presented with the information, you still have to question whether its true or not, going as far as e.mailing the breed club to ask them to back up the pics they have posted, with more proof

The reason behind shaving a Puff, is to pretend they are hairless, because at the moment they are still not desired by some breeders or judges.

No its not your fault what dictates breed standard, but you do seem to have this impression, that a dog with a coat (what is excessive) is incapable of working!!

Just incase anyone gets confused here as Its my puffs being shaved down we were talking about. This is not why we shave them down we shave down our pet puffs.

Hey JB theres a DNA test for HL/PP now to!

JB I like to learn, questioning things is how I learnt about working Poodles, I don't try to belittle something I don't understand I try to understand and all I asked if there was any special preparation of the coat if the dog works and shows before any of the activities, got a problem with that? Its a intrest I have, thats all and if I learn more about the ACS thats a bonus, any dog that works gets my respect, also tbh the pics of the dogs working to me did look like they had less coat then the dog I first showed, so they could also be being shown with less coat

Or Chaz, as DD and anyone who shows a bred with an excessive coat/skirt, will tell you , a coat in show condition (ie, groomed to within an inch of its life) and the same coat in a everyday condition ( ungroomed) can look like two different coats!!

I hope the breed club give you all the information you need to set your mind at rest.

If the dogs in question along with one being a champion, they must have the correct coat texture to have done well in the ring

Think long hair Chaz, when you have not combed it for a while, you are out in the rain/ and it looks like rats tails, then you wash, dry and brush it.. it looks a different head of hair!! but its still the same lenght.

Same with a show dog , groomed out they will look like they have double the coat than when they are playing in the field!!

YOUR opinion again Rips, YOU think its excessive, look at the links!!

Thanks exactly it JB... and what a pleasure it is transforming your fur kids into that super looking dog for the ring. I love it.