Actually sadly poor Clod, you are quite wrong, I have experience of electric collars although not on a dog. Isn't this the part where you state "name, rank and serial number?"

I am not trawling back through all these posts but, for instance, in post 183 Lou repeatedly referred to statements I made as having no scientific evidence to back them.

I have no idea what studies either of you may or may not have carried out - I did not suggest studies had been carried out but that if you/Lou insist on quoting the word science then show me your scientific proof to back up your claims which would be in the form of properly carried out studies. That is my point. You have both made a lot of claims and criticised the viewpoints of others by saying they are not scientific, suggesting yours are. If so, show me.

If you don't have any studies to back up your claims then let's drop the 'science bit', meaning your stance on e-collars is purely based on your own opinions.

I agree, the voice of reason.

To be honest, if anyone is interested then they will contact unclllou and be done with it. I get bored after a while as the whole discussion ends up not being one, but just a "two man game" which I've seen before.

Good point, come on you two, show us what you've got!! Where is your science?

I'm bored too! I'm going to go play with my dog now -this is becoming ridiculous.

Shadow Boxer
but I wouldn't undertake to 'snake-proof' even with his written instructions - I would want him to personally guide me as it is a delicate situation and I would not wish to make even the smallest mistake.

Clod
You’re quite right, the way you describe the situation with snakes in the garden etc only someone with that special experience would be good enough to get it right. It is not an exercise which is simply correct e-collar use dependant, it needs the knowledge of the your local situation, the specific snakes, and a knowledge of e-collars use, especially their limitations in that situation.

I will teach anyone a recall using an e-collar over the phone but I would not touch anything such as you describe, I am not even sure I would try it in person as someone needs much more than knowledge of e-collar use in the situation you describe. We have nothing which could be described as a snake 'problem' here.

Another possible option might be that you went to Steve on a one off trip for an e-lesson and see how confortable you felt about it after. To be honest, although I obviously cannot understand your situation properly, but, from what you describe, I dont think I would rely on e-proofing against snakes in the garden and then leave my dogs out in the garden if I knew there was a high risk.

Proofing for snakes/a hazard whilst out for a walking is one thing but I would not rely on e-proofing to leave them safely in a garden with a high probality of snake contact being present.

Just musing on this again and wondering how you can actually write all this above, and yet not be initially honest and admit to using the modern electric collar on very high levels at times?

Everything you say is geared to make naive people think using the collars is not painful.
You even say that when the dog first feels the "stim" , that's when your work is done. Very misleading indeed.

You only mentioned food refusal training when the link was pointed out and proved what you do.

Dearie me

Please do not get personal. If the thread becomes a flame war it will be closed and deleted. Ignore any personal remarks by not responding to them but report them with the report post icon instead.

Regarding Collars , may I point out some evidence given to the House Of Commons Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Report ...

the only people who submitted evidence in support of the collars were a vet a one behaviorist and even they said "a last resort method when all other methods of training a dog, including positive reinforcement, have failed. The collars were not appropriate or necessary for most dogs, or for routine obedience training; nor were they suitable or effective as a quick-fix or lazy option for people who cannot be bothered to train their pets".....

So why are two people repeatedly going on public dog forums frequented by pet owners trying to tell people these collars are a good thing. Iif they themselves are advocating the use of these collars as a last resort are pet owners the best people to be targeting ?

Hopefully on the recommendations of this select committee Defra will get it's act together and prepare a proper report and these devices will be banned once and for all.

Yes, I read that too, also all the info and discussion on the collars. I do think in time something will be done, but not sure if it will be too late this time. I do hope not.