I never once thought you yourself were scaremongering

This said it does'nt change the fact that raw fed dogs are harder to treat for bacterial and parasitic infections, I have now witnessed this

But it isn't a fact? So when Keena got that sick she was easier to treat because she was on 'dog food' at the time?? You saw the picture and she was ill for two weeks? What would your vet say about that? There was no explanation other than bacteria causing a problem. A kibble fed dog goes on a light diet and you can just as easy adapt a natural diet if you are worried about any bacteria creating further problems while the system is down. Whats the difference?

I really hope now that you are back on 'dog food' that they don't get even a days sickness again (bless em) but would be very suprised as any dog what ever it is fed gets the odd upset - it just happens.

It happened to one of mine while only fed 'dog food' and it has happend to yours while being fed half and half it's just how it is sometimes no matter what you have done.

I don't want to go round in circles - you love your dogs and will do what is best for them I know I think if it helps put your mind at ease then it is the best thing for you to have them on 'dog food'.

I'm just saying unless these things are truely a fact and more than just opinion then raw feeding can't be classed as a bad thing

Any other dog I have owned with an upset before was treated and recovered much quicker...For me raw is a time bomb, I truely hope you don't have to go through what Kain and I did last weekend, if I did'nt think it was that serious I would'nt have changed, if I did'nt trust my vet I would'nt have changed, if Kain was'nt so ill I wouldn't have changed, if I had done my home work properly in the beginning I would'nt have started it, I started feeding raw on the stregnth of assumptions and that nearly cost me my dog.
I've been asked for proof, where is the proof raw is a good diet, where are the clinical tests that raw is best, even this Dr Billinghurst has started using a disclaimer, what does this tell us ?

Good point Mys, have you read the article that I just posted
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=57853 I think it gives a balanced perspective about just that.

No one is saying raw is best. There are too many variables. Even between raw fed dogs one dog might be doing really poor and another great. With so many ways to get it right and wrong and so many differing opinions raw feeding does not only mean one thing...So to judge any raw feeding and lump it all together in the same catergory, well you just can't do it.

How do you mean you hope I don't go through what you went through with poor Kain? I'm not going to get into a my dog was sicker than your dog discussion...but you read what I posted about Keena's sickness right?? She was pritty much on deaths door, did you see the picture? That was only the start of it - I was also seeing big chuncks of stomach lining in her so called vomit which wasn't vomit just blood - caused by a severe irritation likely to have been a bacterial infection to her inerds.

She was on kibble so what can anyone say?

Raw feeding is not a time bomb. Given that you do throughly research what you are about to get involved with. If you feel you hadn't then it's good that you switch back to 'dog food' for peice of mind - nothing wrong with that and to be honest for the best.

Your doing nothing wrong you don't have to defend yourself but you can't say raw feeding is bad just as I can't say 'dog food' is.

As far as I am concerned my vet is a god, that wasn't a typo, she is a god.

Really I don't think she needs to prove anything, her experience, training and findings are based on factual evidence and the treatment she has had to give in more recent times and the upsurge in Barf diets. That and the fact the other vets have been seeing the same.

Its not rocket science, more dogs on barf diet=more intestinal parasites and serious infections, there are many pet nutritional experts that are not aligned to the pet food trade that do not believe barf diets to be safe or beneficial.

Regarding salmonella in kibble, small amounts matter not but raw food can be heavily infected

Read this
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=339295

It was a scientific study.

No conclusion, but I will give you mine, feeding a raw unprocessed diet particularly that containing chicken is in my opinion irresponsible and presents a public health hazard, from the results shown in the table it was conclusive that feeding raw = salmonella in stools.

Anyone who feeds raw and has children might want to reconsider.

Scaremongering? or facts? You make your choice but until there is PROOF that barf is safe and of benefit I will keep on cooking.

How about considering people have been feeding raw meat prior to 'barf'. BARF is just one guys take on natural raw feeding people have been giving their dogs raw meat since the begining of time.

Where are the stats to show there are more intestinal parasites. Does regular worming not solve this problem if it indeed is one?

Where is the proof that more people are feeding a raw diet than they ever have been. People are probably feeding it less now since commercial dog food has been available. What did dogs get before that? cooked meat yes but you can bet alot of dogs were given raw meat.

Did they also test kibble fed dogs for levels of salmonella?? A little salmonella doesn't matter but alot does?? what are you talking about...salmonella is salmonella.

So i'm being irresponsible towards public health by feeding my dogs a raw diet now am I? Oh ffs! I pick up my dogs **** as would any other responsible owner.

What other silly accusations are you going to come out with??

Scaremongering is just what your doing no doubt about it...it is clear to see your point of view, you are dead against it, not exactly unbiased is it Where as I have had bad experiances with feeding mine 'dog food' but I would never tell people that do that they are being irresponsible and such like.

What a load of crap.

Taken from Landywoods website

SO.. the point is.. You COULD eat it if you wanted to..

Erm.. get of your moral high ground and do some research.

Small levels of salmonella do not always cause illness, there are more than one strain, as for picking up your dog mess, well I'd like to see you try when its has the runs and is shedding salmonella, E coli and parasites.

A few people start feeding raw diets and state "Oh look nice glossy coat, must be doing the dog good"! and suddenly its the 'in' thing. Feed your dog lard for a week and it will have a nice glossy coat.

.... and scaremongering... proof yadayada.

Where is the proof that your wonder diet that has apparently been around for years is really that safe?

Can you really place hand on heart and say raw meat is good.

I'll save you the time and resources.

There is none, ziltch, zero, nil points. You really need to wake up to the facts as presented to you by people that have studied animal science and nutrition and the inescapable fact that the meat/fish/eggs will at sometime be infected no matter where it has come from.

You know what I haven't been close before on this forum to telling someone to **** off but am close with you.

Yes more than one strain of salmonella WHICH could be pressent regardless of amount.

As for picking up up dog mess: well it is alot easier now that they don't have the sh*ts constantly since being on their current diet. My dogs have no parasists and certainly aint sh*tting them out all over the place thanks.

I never said anything about glossy coats! you often find the 'dog food' folk say my dog does well on it's food it has a nice glossy coat...I'm well aware that the coat can be glossy for other reasons than the perfect diet.

Where is my proof of my wonder diet.....????? Who has called it a wonder diet. Really get over yourself. I've not once mentioned anything about wonder diets or being ultimatley safe

P*ss on your facts you have none. Wake up to the facts presented to me? By who? you? Where? For as many 'facts' as you like to call them pointing out any bad, there is equall amount to point out the good. Your biased I'm not. I would never say kibble is all bad just because my dogs didn't do well on it, why should you say all raw feeding is bad? I could direct people to 100's of sites saying 'dog food' is bad but I wouldn't because I believe in choice. You don't know what your talking about.

My dogs didn't do well on 'dog food' and have done great on raw so YES I can say raw meat for my dogs has been good.

So take your weak accusations and shove them

Not really left a lot to add to that eh

Think it's a bit out of order for anyone to have a go at any choice of feeding. I feed my two raw and they enjoy it and thrive on it.. others feed kibble and have results they are happy with... Dogs get ill thats a sad fact but to turn it into a dig at raw feeding without any proper facts is just a lil bit out of order in my humble opinion....