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greatbarnet
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18-08-2014, 07:32 AM

How many classes do you put your dogs into?

I would like to go to a breed championship show as I've never been before but have a question about classes.

My dog will be 13 months old by then, so the first class he could go in is Junior. There are Yearling, Novice, Graduate, Post Graduate classes and so on as well. Is it true that I should enter him in the lowest class possible only, or should I give him a go in more than one class? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

He has only shown twice, at open shows, where he won his breed classes but not the group.
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Jackie
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18-08-2014, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by greatbarnet View Post
I would like to go to a breed championship show as I've never been before but have a question about classes.

My dog will be 13 months old by then, so the first class he could go in is Junior. There are Yearling, Novice, Graduate, Post Graduate classes and so on as well. Is it true that I should enter him in the lowest class possible only, or should I give him a go in more than one class? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

He has only shown twice, at open shows, where he won his breed classes but not the group.
At 13 mths old you want to put him in junior .... its always best to put him in the lowest class he is eligible for...i.e 13 mths = junior ..

DEFINITION OF CLASSES
KC Reg F(A)
In the following Definitions, a Challenge Certificate includes any show award that counts towards the title of Champion under the
rules of any governing body recognised by the Kennel Club.
Wins at Championship Shows in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are not on offer shall be counted as wins at Open Shows.
In the case of a dog owned in partnership and entered in Members classes or competing for Members Specials each partner must
at the time of entry b e a member of the Society.
In estimating the number of awards won, all wins up to and including the seventh day before the date of closing of entries shall be
counted when entering for any class i.e. 16th June 2014.
Wins in Variety classes do not count for entry in Breed classes but, when entering for Variety classes, wins in both Breed and
Variety classes must be counted. A first prize does not include a Special Prize of whatever value.
For the purposes of Kennel Club Show Regulations, the term “Variety Class” also applies to “Stakes Classes”. A Variety Class is
one in which more than one breed or variety of a breed can compete.
A dog is not eligible for entry in Variety classes unless also entered and subsequently exhibited in a Breed class where such a
class is provided for which it is eligible {Subject to Reg. F19(j)}.
Exemptions from this Regulation are :-
(1) A puppy, unless a class for dogs under twelve months of age for which it is eligible is provided for the breed.
(2) A dog in Any Variety Veteran class.
(3) A dog in Any Variety Champion class.
(4) A dog which is withdrawn from exhibition in breed classes as a result of the appointment of an emergency judge.
(5) A dog in YKC Stakes slasses.
(6) A dog in KC Good Citizen Scheme classes.
(7) Exhibits bred by the scheduled breed Judge.
MINOR PUPPY — For dogs of six and not exceeding nine calendar months of age on the first day of the Show.
PUPPY — For dogs of six and not exceeding twelve calendar months of age on the first day of the Show.
JUNIOR — For dogs of six and not exceeding eighteen calendar months of age on the first day of the Show.
YEARLING—For dogs of twelve and not exceeding twenty four calendar months of age on the first day of the Show.
SPECIAL BEGINNERS — For owner, handler or exhibit not having won a Challenge Certificate.
MAIDEN — For dogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or a First Prize at an Open or Championship Show (Minor Puppy, Special
Minor Puppy, Puppy and Special Puppy classes excepted, whether restricted or not).
NOVICE — For dogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or three or more First Prizes at Open and Championship Shows (Minor
Puppy, Special Minor Puppy, Puppy and Special Puppy classes excepted, whether restricted or not).
DEBUTANT — For dogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or a First Prize at a Championship Show, where Challenge Certificates
were offered for the breed. (Minor Puppy, Special Minor Puppy, Puppy and Special Puppy classes excepted, whether restricted or not).
GRADUATE — For dogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or four or more First Prizes at Championship Shows in Graduate,
Post Graduate, Minor Limit, Limit and Open classes, whether restricted or not, where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed.
POST GRADUATE — For dogs which have not won a Challenge Certificate or five or more First Prizes at Championship Shows in Post
Graduate, Minor Limit, Mid Limit, Limit and Open classes, whether restricted or not, where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed.
LIMIT—For dogs which have not become Show Champions under Kennel Club Regulations or under the rules of any governing body
recognised by the Kennel Club or won seven or more First Prizes in all, at Championship Shows in Limit or Open Classes, confined to
the Breed, whether restricted or not, at Shows where Challenge Certificates were offered for the Breed.
OPEN — For all dogs of the breeds for which the class is provided and eligible for entry at the show.
VETERAN — For dogs of not less than seven years of age on the first day of the Show.
CHAMPION — For dogs which have been confirmed a Champion, Show Champion or Field Trial Champion. Champion classes may
note be scheduled for individual breeds or varieties of breeds.
RARE BREEDS — Confined to those breeds not granted Challenge Certificates in the current year, with the exception of those breeds
whose registration is confined to the Imported Register.
IMPORTED REGISTER — For breeds confined to the Imported Breeds Register and only when an interim breed standard has been
published by The Kennel Club, breeds whose registration is confined to the Imported Register may be exhibited in this class only, and
are ineligible for any other competition whatsoever.
ANY VARIETY NOT SEPARATELY CLASSIFIED — For breeds of dog for which no separate breed classes are scheduled


If you enter more than one class (in breed classes) and you win one but get beaten in another, then you are no longer eligible for the challenge...because the challenge is for unbeaten dogs.

At 13 mths he is still got some maturing to do, and if you put him in any of the higher classes you will be putting him up against mature dogs who will have more impact on the judge
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CaroleC
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18-08-2014, 09:40 AM
This is an alternative view, it doesn't mean that Jackie's post is wrong. It also depends on the depth of quality in your breed, and how quickly that breed matures.
A dog may have done a lot of winning and still be in Junior, as it is only limited by age. The Junior winner is often a dog to be reckoned with in the challenge.
The actual quality of the entry is likely to be lower in the Novice class, as it is limited to dogs with three or fewer wins. Any 'Flyers' are soon out of this class. I would not enter an inexperienced dog in any classes higher than these two. As long as there is a reduced entry fee for subsequent classes, there is a lot to be said for entering both the Junior and the Novice, as if he gets placed in the first (Junior), he also stands a good chance in the following class (Novice).
An interesting question though, picking your judges and classes is a skill in itself!
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Jackie
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18-08-2014, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by CaroleC View Post
This is an alternative view, it doesn't mean that Jackie's post is wrong. It also depends on the depth of quality in your breed, and how quickly that breed matures.
A dog may have done a lot of winning and still be in Junior, as it is only limited by age. The Junior winner is often a dog to be reckoned with in the challenge.
The actual quality of the entry is likely to be lower in the Novice class, as it is limited to dogs with three or fewer wins. Any 'Flyers' are soon out of this class. I would not enter an inexperienced dog in any classes higher than these two. As long as there is a reduced entry fee for subsequent classes, there is a lot to be said for entering both the Junior and the Novice, as if he gets placed in the first (Junior), he also stands a good chance in the following class (Novice).
An interesting question though, picking your judges and classes is a skill in itself!

Agree with the above also...

My view is that when starting out, specially with a youngster , its best not to over face them, introduce them to the show world slowly and as they gain confidence then you can do more if you want, don`t forget the stakes classes as well.

I just feel if you do your relevant class , and win, you are already up for the challenge so your young dog is going to have to go in the ring twice as it is....do another class and that`s three classes and if you are lucky enough to take the ticket you then have to go in to group and so on.

Its a difficult one, and as Carole says it will depend on your breed , class size maturity levels and so on.

For me, I only enter one class I have not done any stakes classes due to not wanting to overload him and make him bored, what with the waiting round ( this weekend it was 4 hrs before his breed) I like to air on the edge of caution and keep the keen... its to easy to tick this and that box and get carried away .

You need to know your own dog and how he is developing .

Good post Carole, it shows different options , neither is right or wrong .
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greatbarnet
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18-08-2014, 11:35 AM
These are really interesting posts, thank you.

He can get bored and tired so I see the benifit of putting him in for just one. I suppose I don't want to drive two hours, get beaten in his class and then see empty classes where we could have done better! But I suppose if he's beatable then he'll be beaten anyway.

I may take that advice and enter him in Novice as well (as its only 3 for subsequent entries) but withdraw if he wins the Junior. Presumably I would need to do that to remain unbeaten? Or only put him in to the class where I think he has the best chance on the day (depending on number of entries and who they are). Although if he gets beaten in Junior is there any point going in to Novice - have we already eliminated ourselves from going into Best Dog by losing?

Sorry, as you can tell I am new to this and still don't really understand how it works!
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CaroleC
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18-08-2014, 01:13 PM
You are allowed to ask permission to retire your dog from a subsequent class, but this would bar you from taking part in any further competition at that show. ie. You would not be allowed to take part in the challenge.
I do hope you have a successful day, (you must let us know if you do), but even if you are disappointed, look on it as a learning experience.
BTW. I would be interested to know what breed are we talking about - a photo too?
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greatbarnet
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18-08-2014, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by CaroleC View Post
You are allowed to ask permission to retire your dog from a subsequent class, but this would bar you from taking part in any further competition at that show. ie. You would not be allowed to take part in the challenge.
Sorry, I am so confused! At an open show we did he had his own breed class (BMD by the way!) which he won, so I withdrew him from AV (which we'd also entered him for). We went on to the group so that didn't seem to bar us from further competition. Or is a breed club show different? (I'm not sure I know what "the challenge" is?!)

So if he won Junior but didn't win Novice then we couldn't advance at all?
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CaroleC
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18-08-2014, 02:04 PM
I didn't think you were including AV classes.
The challenge at a champ show is for the awarding of the CC (Challenge Certificate) and the Reserve CC from all unbeaten dogs. The same for bitches. The dog and bitch CC winners then compete for Best of Breed - which goes forward to the (for a BMD) Working Group judging. If you are beaten in any of your breed classes, you cannot challenge for the CC, but you could still take part in any variety classes you had entered.
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greatbarnet
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18-08-2014, 02:28 PM
Oh, OK. The show I'm talking about is the BMD club of GB show, so all one breed and no AV of course - that was just an example from another show to try and help me understand!

I am obviously being really stupid as I can't see the benefit of entering more than one class if you can't risk being beaten in one of them. Or does it give me more chances to qualify for Crufts or something?
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Jackie
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18-08-2014, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by greatbarnet View Post
Oh, OK. The show I'm talking about is the BMD club of GB show, so all one breed and no AV of course - that was just an example from another show to try and help me understand!

I am obviously being really stupid as I can't see the benefit of entering more than one class if you can't risk being beaten in one of them. Or does it give me more chances to qualify for Crufts or something?
No, because if you come first second or third, you will qualify (as long as said show has CC`s for your breed)

If you get placed as above in the first class you have qualified for Crufts....

If you win the first class and are beaten i.e come second or third , forth and so on, you will not them be able to go in for the challenge ..... which would be best dog.

Given his breed I would stick to junior, the BMD is a slow maturing breed and at his age he has just gone into that class, you could be up against dogs of 18 mths of age, they will have an edge over him in his development , unless of cause your boy is outstanding... then he could win, but if it was me I would just put him in junior.

Also you may see a difference in the numbers at a champion show.... it will all depend, WCK was a small entry, but some shows will be much larger.

there can be a massive difference in maturity from a 13 mth old to an 18 mth old,

As Carole has already pointed out, its not really done to withdraw from the second class if you win the first, this is not the done thing to do.


I know its tempting after driving a few hours and waiting round for a long time, to think I might as well make the best of it, but for me its about giving the dog a good experience, and keeping them fresh ,

You can always enter more than one at later dates once you get the feel of it .
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