I own both types and I have worked and shown. I am not on any 'side' but I do take issue with anyone who tries to defend the state of a bulldog and seems to be saying that the people who show dogs know better than the people who work them what the dog 'ought' to look like.

Do you feel the same as BD about bulldogs?

rune

Agree wholeheartedly with the last bit---but would like to add temperament to the list.

rune

Are we? Another generalisation! Sorry, couldn't help it!

I think it'd help to have a more open mind when it comes to show breeders/exhibitors. To say show people go wrong because they only breed with looks in mind is a very closed way of looking at things!

It's like me saying all working Springers are ugly, queen anne legged, cripples! How could I say this when I haven't met every single one on the planet? The answer is I can't! I've got proof that the vast majority of them aren't health tested, but that doesn't mean all of them are.......

where the hell did BD's come from, I said nothing about BD's you quoted a post from me, and to be honest I thought your quote was quite abrupt, as it was me that was quoted I can only assume its directed at me.
I have stated already in this thread, I base my opinions on rotties,
I did say in the post you quoted
yet you felt the need to come back and bite about working sheep dog owners? why?
my mates are farmers! I know they dont give a fig about looks, I work there collies with the sheep regularly,

I have no problem with you taking issue over the BD health problems, just dont take them with me,

as to show people knowing better than working people....

well I think untill you have been on both sides, as I have then you will never fully understand the pros and cons of each side, I do firmly believe in many breeds there are pros and cons in each type show and working, if breeders could work together then poss better dogs could be produced on both sides.

I was answering a post which said that Bernese looked OK but didn't live long. That seemed to me to indicate that the poster felt that looks were important and was surprised that in spite of looking OK they had a short life expectancy, I was pointing out that show breeders did breed for looks and that in doing so although the Bernese looked OK it had hidden health problems due to being bred too big---in the same way that great danes do.

I repeat---I have had dogs I have shown and I have had dogs I have worked in various hobby ways.

You also seem to have missed my post where I said that farmers etc can't be bothered as a rule to extend the gene pool as it is easier to stay local.

rune

OK--take a breath---this is a complete muddle!

I was answering Borderdawn---and I shortened it to BD---sorry!

I never mentioned wsd owners---where did that come from?

I started by giving a list of 3 breeds that are not well constructed and have health problems----bulldogs specifically and IMO unarguably----except that Borderdawn says not.

I have been on both sides and to be honest there isn't a whisker between them IMO. There are some good some bad and some indifferent on both
'sides' It is a shame we can't just be on the side of the dogs.

rune

cool I see where the confusion has came in,
re the working sheep dog thing, I was refering to you mentioning farmers not giving a fig what there sheep dogs looked like.

Found the post you mean Shona---apologies I did say sheep dogs.

It goes for any working dogs though---as long as they work looks are secondary.

rune

Found it and sorted!

rune

I do understand the looks being secondary, though the farm collies my pal has still look very much like collies {I think, what I know about show collies you could write on the back of a stamp }

but in many breeds wouldnt it be so nice to have a nice balanced dog that looks like the breed standard that can also do a days work.
which is kinda what I feel we have with most of the show rotties,

its the byb that seem to be producing dogs that no bits of them are hangging the right way.