Errrrr....................give me a chance, I'm working my way through. If you'd been a little patient, you'll see I was addressing it as you were typing your reminder to me.

Not all of us are just sitting at a computer with nothing else to do. Kids are off school (staff training) today and so I'm afraid I can't give the thread my undivided attention I'm a Mum as well as a dog lover, so I do have to divide my time

Hardly helpful in getting the thread back on track really. All you are doing is alienating Gnasher from the thread (along with others)! You can't tell Gnasher that she wasn't joking! How do you know?????????????

I know exactly what the rules are for teachers and I have often had to restrain a child/young adult from either self harming or harming others.

However the big difference is that the kids were removed from the stressfull situation ASAP, as was the trigger. For reasons best known to himself CM doesn't do that. Maybe he thinks it is more macho and manly to hang on in there and strangle the dog?

This business of 'the dog does it to himself' is real desperation on the part of the, apparently blind, followers of the man.

Would you complain if the teachers restrained your child and made them stand and be in a place they didn't want to be in?

rune

Well, it's all a bit hypothetical isn't it, so it's hard to give a straight yes or no answer. Everything would depend on the circumstances; why the child lost control, whether it would be sensible to remove the child from where it was, possibly compromising the safety of others, so on and so forth.....................that's why it isn't really sensible to compare dog to child when discussing this kind of topic. I'm sure putting a child on a lead might be helpful in certain circumstances (where a child is attacking another child and teachers are struggling to control said child) but nobody would ever do that because putting a lead on a child is "abuse" and totally unacceptable in any circumstance, whereas we all put leads on our beloved dogs day in day out. Dog/child are not comparable in this subject at all.

The paragraph regarding "pros" being blind really isn't helpful is it because we can't move on if you accuse people of being blind because of their opinion. I could say you were "blind" because of your interpretation of the situation but I am open-minded enough to see that we all have our own opinions, which should be respected.

Its weird---I can't see how, in this day and age of enlightenment, anyone can think what he does is right.

I suppose its like still believing the earth is flat.

Its a sign of an arguement being lost when you say you can't compare the way we treat dogs and the way we treat kids.Of course we can. They are all beings who need to learn how to behave in whichever society we choose to take them into. How we teach them to do that is,in the main, up to us.

Restraining and making them stay in a stressfull situation is not good for either.

rune

But she does after a time, when more temptations are set in ner way... which says, those methods dont work.


Your attitude and language is disgusting, voive an opinion, but try an do it without sinking into the gutter!!!!!!

Agree the first reference to the "red eyes" was not make in jest, only after it was questioned, did she back track, to suggest it was made in irony




I think CC , it was obvious,

And that's what it's all about with some, isn't it? (above in bold). I'm here to give my views, to answer questions as best I can, to discuss and listen NOT WIN an argument but it's clear that some are here on a point scoring mission

You clearly can't treat children and dogs in the same way in certain circumstances, as I've already highlighted. Yes, there are certain aspects of dog training that kind of overlap with training a child, as in rewarding good behaviour (not in a treats sense but with praise and encouragement) and ignoring bad (in some circumstances with both child and dog behaviour). However, when discussing how to deal with a child that is aggressive, out of control.......................it's a bit different to dealing with a dog that's lost the plot. For one, the child's unlikely to take your fingers off and the dog is definitely not going to shout verbal abuse. Each situation is unique and I'm sorry but NO I cannot compare dog/child in the scenario you have set out. If you want to consider that because of that, I've lost the argument, feel free. I'm not here to win arguments, just to discuss.

I can't say more than I already have that I failed Fluffles miserably on this one. It is a difficult one because I do understand that dogs live "in the moment" but how do you address a dog that has destroyed something, after the event????? I'm not perfect (far from) and I'm open to suggestions. Like I've said (sorry to keep repeating) it isn't a massive problem but one I've struggled to decide on a good way of dealing with. If it happened daily say, or even weekly, I dare say I'd have got my act together but she may go weeks and weeks without destroying some leather item and so I assume she's passed the phase, until that bitten up shoe/wallet/purse appears before me. However, I've listened to a couple of good ideas on this thread and I will address it.

But just to reiterate, I do realise I HAVE MESSED UP on this particular issue with Fluffles *holds hands up*

Touching on the Gnasher situation briefly, it certainly wasn't obvious to me one way or the other but Gnasher has a fab sense of humour and so I think she most likely did say in jest. Give her a break, eh

But exactly where would you draw the line as to what is reasonable restraint and what is abusive behaviour? Using physical force of any kind is balancing on a very fine line.
Becky