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rune
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11-03-2012, 08:39 PM
Didn't take too long!

http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/re...0paralysis.htm

Imagine yours and mine is not inherited but Crufts one could have been I suppose as it was so much younger. Also doesn't mention labs!
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Losos
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11-03-2012, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by EllesBelles View Post
but the whole Breeding will be more difficult/the rest of the world will hate us argument is just not good enough to outweigh the need for healthier dogs.
The rest of the world have a far worse record on dogs than the UK - I've lived and worked in many countries and mostly they couldn't care less about their dogs.

And so now genuine breeders wil have to work a bit harder and search a bit more for parents that are clear of defects, so what, we are in a severe financial situation, everyone is having to work harder.
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Nippy
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11-03-2012, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
It is not the collar and lead that holds the head up, it is the person stringing the dog up by them................
And could this cause Larangeal paralysis or even other conditions?
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smokeybear
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11-03-2012, 08:55 PM
Pulling on leash:
Of those dogs that had cervical (neck) anomalies, 91% (!) had been exposed to harsh jerks on the leash, or they had a long history of pulling or straining at the end of a leash. There is a risk of "whip-lash" from jerking the leash that probably increases if the dog wears a choke chain. Choke chains are constructed such that pulling it results in pressure distributed around the dog's neck, but the muscles that absorb the pressure are situated mostly at the sides of the neck. The neck and throat are almost unprotected.
Choke chains can be dangerous. For many years I and others have criticized the use of choke chains and training methods that use jerking and pulling on a leash as a means of controlling behavior. Unfortunately, most dog trainers use just this technique. There is probably a relationship between the force of the jerk and the risk of injury. I believe dog owners should be warned that chaining a dog to anything firm, that isn't elastic, without surveillance may increase the risk of a spinal injury. A dog can easily forget the boundaries of the chain or rope, accelerate, and suddenly come to a halt, with all the stopping power concentrated around the dog's neck.

Hallgren , “Animal Behavior Consultants Newsletter” July, 1992, V.9 No.2.
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Hanlou
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11-03-2012, 09:32 PM
Perhaps a little O/T but I didn't like the shape of the back of the GSD at all - and it got placed.... I was relieved it didn't come first!

I hate to see the dogs 'strung up' by the owners too. The Norwich Terrier that won its group hardly had its front feet on the ground the handler was holding it up so much!

If there's any ignorance in my observations - this is the first time I've ever watched Crufts or indeed any dog show. I have always avoided Crufts until this year as it just made me pine for a dog even more! I could enjoy it this year having my own beautiful girly at my side! xx
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smokeybear
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11-03-2012, 09:56 PM
Nothing wrong with the GSD at all, Rico is a superb example of the breed having both working qualifications and a glittering show career with many BIS to his credit not to mention a superb temperament.
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lozzibear
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11-03-2012, 11:26 PM
I know changing breeds, and making them healthier will be extremely difficult. But, for the sake of the dogs, I think it is drastically needed... I really hope the UK are the ones leading the way, and showing people (both here and in other countries) that the state of some of these breeds is just not right.
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EllesBelles
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11-03-2012, 11:35 PM
I can't believe the response of the Basset Hound's owner. Her lifes work is over and she will never show again if she doesn't get an apology and Crufts doesn't go back to how it used too?

If her dog is unhealthy and the vet was correct, and at the moment there is no reason to believe that they weren't (they are under a great deal of pressure to pass dogs, especially after the backlash) then good. The show world is better off without her.

That said, I'll miss Crufts! It's been a rollercoaster few days. I met so many lovely dogs!
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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11-03-2012, 11:57 PM
I know I'm late replying, but I've been a tad busy!

Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
Well, that's another issue, isn't it?
"20 CCs" and the like doesn't impress me very much, when 3 are enough under 3 different judges to get a CH. And if I was very much into the breed, I'd like to know if those 3 were awarded by breed specialists.

To me, 20 CCs just means the dog has been to at least 20 shows and won, when 3 well chosen ones might have been enough. We don't have Multi CHs or GR CHs here, so more than say, 6CCs looks like notches on the bedpost.

It would be great to be able to afford to go to 20 shows with CCs on offer, not everyone can, so boasts of that many won don't really impress me, the health and lineage counts for more.
It is a difficult one and part of the reason I've stopped showing so much - I'm tired of just "making up the numbers". Don't get me wrong, I love showing: it's a day out with my dogs, what can be better? But I do know of at least one breeder who has a litter on the go almost constantly. Add to that the many stud fees gained throughout the year and the breeding will pay for the showing. And of course once you're known in some breeds you're far more likely to keep winning....

I do think it should change in this country and once a dog has it's Champion status, then the CC should be passed to the reserve. This way you'll create more Champions and therefore widen the gene pool and help to prevent "popular stud" syndrome. And for those that think this will lower quality: many other countries seem to be managing with this system with little problem.

Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
you're not going to believe this, but so did we, and a real difference to the dogs that have made it to group as BOB in previous years, not so big and heavy looking and nowhere near as feathered
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
I thought the dog was stunning and I was surprised by the feathering... I kept rambling on about it to OH, and as he isn't a 'doggy person' so had no idea what I was going on about
Originally Posted by Helen View Post
I really loved the ESS and was surprised at how much as I don't usually like the show lines. If this is the way forward, massive kudos to the breed!

I did have a chuckle though, about what she was saying about the american cocker still being able to go through thick cover!

I do think that things are heading in the right direction at long last.

Helen
The ESS BOB was continental bred and this is what a lot of the dogs are like over there as they're often still used for hunting and tracking. Have a look at a couple of the dogs on this website bred by the ESS BOB kennel:

Robin

Rattan

Stunning dogs with moderate feathering!!!!


Originally Posted by EllesBelles View Post
I can't believe the response of the Basset Hound's owner. Her lifes work is over and she will never show again if she doesn't get an apology and Crufts doesn't go back to how it used too?

If her dog is unhealthy and the vet was correct, and at the moment there is no reason to believe that they weren't (they are under a great deal of pressure to pass dogs, especially after the backlash) then good. The show world is better off without her.

That said, I'll miss Crufts! It's been a rollercoaster few days. I met so many lovely dogs!
I loved it this year being dog less is so much less stressful!

Sadly there will be a lot of breeders who will whine and cry on at the injustice of it all and I suppose they have a point. The KC have suddenly moved the goal posts, but if they'd stopped to look at what they're breeding and attempted to breed healthy specimens in the first place, then perhaps they wouldn't be in this position. I just hope the KC will stick to it's guns, only time will tell......
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MerlinsMum
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12-03-2012, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by EllesBelles View Post
I can't believe the response of the Basset Hound's owner. Her lifes work is over and she will never show again if she doesn't get an apology and Crufts doesn't go back to how it used to?!
Her choice entirely - and now that we have no restrictions on taking dogs overseas, she can ditch the KC and show with FCI in Ireland and Europe if she wants to. If she can't afford to do that then she can still register her puppies with KC, and perhaps buyers from countries that are not as strict will be her main customers - plus those who prefer their pet Bassets the way she breeds them.

She must have been living in a bubble not to have been aware of the concerns over excessive skin folds and loose eyes in Bassets that have been voiced in the last few years.

I do agree it has been a shock to the system and could probably have been more tactfully thought out, but the die has been cast.
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