Puppy joints and ligaments

hi.

i have a 14 week dalmation.

i have been told that exercising ur puppy to much to early can afect their joints and do ligament damage and lead to artharitus.
i have also been told by a few people that there is no real evidance for this and it is a widley believed myth!

i enjoy walking and am really struggling to keep our walks to 1/2 hr 3 times a day off lead.
if i dont take her out for at least this amount of time she goes crazy at home, literally bouncing off the furniture.
when she's off the lead i walk slowly but she has so much energy and runs (quite fast for her age) and shows no signs of tiring.

what is everyones opinion?

The rule is 5 minutes a day of each month of age of dog so your dog is being over excersised way too much. The joint problem later on in life really isn't a myth and it can do your dog a lot of damage if you over excersise or let him jump and go up and down stairs.

Instead of trying to tire him out physically, can you try to wear him out mentally? So frequent, short walks, but also lots of short training sessions throughout the day? At 14 weeks he should be able to learn quite a few of the basic tricks and you should hopefully be able to expand on them, e.g. working up to longer sit-stays and the like.
Myth or not, if there's a chance it could be true then I personally wouldn't risk it. I'd rather have a bouncy pup for a few months than a crippled dog for life.

The guy who made up the 'rule' wanted to give dog owners something quick and snappy to remember, hence the 5 min rule, which, as others have pointed out, relates to lead, or forced walking.

Puppy play is fine, not a problem, but walking your pup on lead where they have no option to follow you is where the 5 min rule comes in. The only thing to watch for when they're playing, is where they're sort of drawn in and won't rest, because it's all too exciting, then you may need to step in.

The reason for the 'rule', which is better referred to as a rough guideline, is that as a pup runs around and gets tired, the muscles take less of the strain, and then the joints and ligaments take more, this is where environmental damage can happen. It's true that if you have a good set of hips/elbows then it takes a lot of over exercise to actually damage them, but many dogs do not have perfect hips and elbows, and over exercise, particularly when young, can contribute towards damage as their joints are developing.

The best way, by far, to tire a pup or dog out, is by mental stimulation, training is a much better way to tire them out. And, by sheer coincidence the best time to instill the basics of recall, sit, recall, heel, recall, and did I mention recall? ......is when they are pups. All of this training will need regular reinforcement, with positive situations to help them learn what is right, and enjoy being rewarded.

Funnily enough I've spent the day with a friend round, who has a chocolate Lab pup, I helped her find the litter in actual fact, and we spent five mins training, the rest of the time her pup either ran around with my dogs, or just slept in the porch way. No doubt I'll hear from them later on that's she's flat out, because the mental stimulation of training, and a different environment, will have worn her out more than just walking alone.

I'm in the same boat with a 5 month Cocker.
Doing 1 hr off lead as his main walk.
Will do 20 mins fetching a ball, running out at full speed.
But its true when he's been to his training class it flattens him.

Our Springer/Lab is awful when he hasnt his usual walks, this is only when I am really ill and can hardly move, he's 4 and a half months old and I know some people will tell me I'm doing the wrong thing, he gets walked the same length and same amount of time as the other 2 dogs, normally a 40 minute walk twice a day and half an hour playing with the ball or playing tag with our rabbits (they are never harmed and are used to the dogs)

He also gets 10 minutes of training every day and already knows sit, down, paw, touch, leave it and get the post.
After every bit of exercise he sleeps or chews his toys and is a happy dog, I worried about it so i contacted the vet and she said that as long as i am careful where he walks my regime should be fine.

I am weary about his joints and ligaments so he gets a working dog puppy food and gets a cod liver oil tablet every day like the older dogs do, sometimes he gets tuna mixed in with his dry mix and sometimes he'll have a tin of sardines (mainly for his coat)

I know you will say that I probably am doing the wrong thing by the exercise but our 9 year old border collie cross jack russell was brought up the exact same way and she still tears around like a 6 month old puppy.

I believe in bringing the puppy up how it's mother would, in a natural enviroment...in order to keep them stable and balanced. A mother dog wouldnt exercise her puppies by the "five minute rule" I know it's a controversial belief but a puppy wont limit itself to a short walk if it had the choice or stop playing with it's brothers and sisters because it's owner is scared of them getting hurt, but I think it varies on the breed, crossbreeds are less prone to the diseases and problems of pedigree dogs, of course all dogs are prone to artheritis. I know puppies wont know about what'll happen if they injury themselves later on, because dogs life in the now, not past for future. At 14 weeks our puppy got two 20 minute walks a day - off and on lead as well as training every day and some playtime with our older dogs.

I think that people bubble wrap their animals, meaning that they worry too much about what if and all that nonsense instead of using their instinct, if you have an active puppy the five minute walk is just unfair, I'm all for mental stimulation but not all mental stimulation is good, frustration at trying to work something out will make your dog resent the exercise and then you'll end up with an unstable dog later on in life and most unstable dogs end up in rescue centres.

Listening to your puppy instead of "rules" will give you a better idea of what your puppy needs. Of course some puppies seem to never tire so you have to be sensible about your instincts and be sensible about the chocies you make. Dogs will get older and will have joint problems, but thats what vets are for and if people cant afford a vet bill then they shouldnt own a dog or an animal for that matter, there are plenty of joint care things out there, like water treadmils and pedrigree joint care sticks.

I'm sorry if some people dont agree with me, but i have contacted the vets and I am giving him food that is good for him and his joints, if he does limp or is a bit stiff, it;s not his joints, it's the latic acid left over in his muscles, so he'll get a walk to get rid of that. This is my opinion, I'm not saying I'm right and I'm defiinately not saying I'm wrong either, I just believe that some most listened too rules arent always the best way, it's just conformity to that rule because people dont want to be made to feel bad for not conforming to what other people are doing with their dogs.

Of course it is up to you what you decide is best for your puppy

Of course there are treatments out there but surely if there's a way to prevent or limit the damage caused, we should be doing that?! That's like saying a smoker shouldn't give up because there's always chemotherapy when they've got lung cancer from their 40 a day habit.
You say you are following nature, but nature does not have puppies attached to leads, doesn't have them pounding pavements - the situations we keep domestic dogs in is totally different to a wolf mum and pup.

I'm glad your 9 year old dog is fine but as the owner of a dog who was put down at 4 due to hip problems, I would not wish that heartbreak on anyone, and if that can be prevented by being cautious about the length of walks then I would advise any puppy owner to look into it and consider the length of their walks and how it may affect the dog. Water treadmills and Pedigree joint care sticks wouldn't have given my 4 year old dog the extra 10 years she should've lived for, and if limiting her exercise as a pup could've prevented her being so bad, then I'd happily travel back in time to make sure she was walked to this 5 minute rule.

First of all I am sorry for your loss, thats a terrible thing to happen.
Secondly, my dogs are only ever on concrete for a maximun of 20 minutes a time, due to where we live, I wasnt saying my way was right or wrong I was simply stating what I believe in, no one has to listen to my opinion, I think the breed of dog is also important and the breeding, especially in pedrigree dogs, I've seen pedigree dogs having to be in wheelchairs at young ages because the breed is susceptible to hip dyplasia and other diseases. I have been cautious about his exercise, like my OH likes to run with the dogs, I wont let him take the pup because I know it wont help him later on in life.

He has check ups regualrly, they all do, so they dont fall out with the vets and get used to being there and it's really only recently that his walks have been bumped up because as he's getting older and more active and his checks have proved that he is able to walk more. I wasnt saying the 5 minute rule or limiting walks was bad, I just have a problem with the owners that listen to this and then take it too far and end up not walking their dog at all.

But that is my opinion and no one has to listen to it, I was just stating what we did and have done and I also said it is up to the owner of that dog to how much exercise they think their dog needs.
I of course dont want to start an argument or offend anyone by stating my opinion and of course do not want to be told I am doing something wrong, I will however take constructive criticism and I will answer to it

I think you have to be wary drawing any comparisons to wild dogs, these are not at all the same type of animal as our domesticated breeds, particularly our medium/large breed dogs that are known to suffer joint problems and that can be exacerbated by environmental damage, this is most likely to happen with a young pup and developing joints. And in actual fact, wild dogs do limit the exercise of their young, they are left under supervision of a parent or family member, whilst others are out hunting, and they bring food back for a number of weeks, occasionally moving den, and pups are carried, or walk if they can. When they are eventually allowed to follow a hunt, they do not go for long distances, so even these ultra fit wild animals follow their own precautions, it's not in their interests to rear a litter and then risk the health of their young, they invest far too much time and energy reproducing to simply risk injury to their young in this way.

And so, it makes sense to me to limit any 'possible' damage to growing joints, by following the 5 min rule. I've got a bitch here who had me tearing my hair out as a pup/youngster and I followed the 5 min rule, she was as mad as a box of frogs, worried me no end jumping on and (more importantly) off things she shouldn't have, and she has 0:0 hips and 0 elbows.

At the same time, where I used to live, there was a lady with a Lab pup she'd bought from a farm, no health tests, and she walked it at least three hours every day right from being a youngster, because her OH didn't want it loose in the house, so rather than keep it crated she took it out all the time. The poor thing had no chance, it was bad mannered and she'd had a much easier dog before, so the Lab pup got away with anything and everything, and by the age of 12 months old, it had a decidedly odd gait, certainly didn't look right when walking.

So am I glad I stuck to the 5 min rule? Yep, thinking about that Lab pup, I have moved since and haven't seen him for over a year now, but it's all about giving them the best start possible, to allow them to develop without risking injury from simply over exercising. It's our decision in how we approach this, a pup can't make the decision with it's future health in mind, so you have to do what you think is best. Definitely, for medium or large breeds, I think this rule is a great guide for owners.

All I will say is that I hope you have a full 5-generation joint health history of your Springer x Lab and hope for the best.

Oh, and you can't compare the genetic joint issues found in Jack Russells and Border Collies to the incidence of those found in Labs especially and Springers.