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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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25-01-2010, 09:48 PM

Shock Collars - Experiences Please.

Ok, I was talking to a friend the other day and she has decided to get a shock collar for her dog to stop him from chasing the wildlife. He's a gundog and she's been training him for sometime to use him as such, however she can't get past the chasing thing.

I've indicated my feelings about this, but I don't think it's going to change the outcome (it's already been ordered).

What I really need is some examples of how they can go wrong. Anything to prevent it's use really.

Many thanks.
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Ramble
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25-01-2010, 10:14 PM
Will something like this helps for now Rips? Until such time as Wys comes on...she has heaps of links and info to hand and I am on my way to bed...but possibly get the lady to read this. Whilst it is about GSDs and their training I think it's findings are relevant. Mind you if she is considering it I don't think you will talk ehr out of it.
http://www.ust.is/media/ljosmyndir/d...hockcollar.pdf
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hayleybella
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25-01-2010, 10:16 PM
Mini Posted this the other day

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/negativ...-shock-collar/

MAybe worth showing to your friend.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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25-01-2010, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Will something like this helps for now Rips? Until such time as Wys comes on...she has heaps of links and info to hand and I am on my way to bed...but possibly get the lady to read this. Whilst it is about GSDs and their training I think it's findings are relevant. Mind you if she is considering it I don't think you will talk ehr out of it.
http://www.ust.is/media/ljosmyndir/d...hockcollar.pdf
Only had a quick look, but that looks pretty impressive!!! Will definitely pass that on, thanks Ailsa.

Originally Posted by hayleybella View Post
Mini Posted this the other day

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/negativ...-shock-collar/

MAybe worth showing to your friend.
Another good article and one I think she'll find easy to read. Put the two together and I think I've got a pretty strong case!

I knew you Dogsey peeps would come up trumps, many thanks.
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werewolf
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26-01-2010, 12:22 AM
I am no expert but I am thinking maybe he isn't the right dog to be a gundog if he is chasing things after sometimes worth of training.

Sorry can't help ref the use of the esc.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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26-01-2010, 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
I am no expert but I am thinking maybe he isn't the right dog to be a gundog if he is chasing things after sometimes worth of training.

Sorry can't help ref the use of the esc.
Well it depends, some dogs are just chasers (a field trial winning GWP took off after a pheasant on a shoot day last year) and Spinones are renound for chasing things (the dog in question is a Spinone).

I do agree though and have said as much - sometimes you just have to accept your dog will never be top rank and love him for what he is. Kinda fell on deaf ears though.
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Emma
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26-01-2010, 12:55 AM
I would be also be saying to your friend to feel it on herself, dogs still feel pain even though they arent human. There is masses of documentation to the cruelty and the negative impacts that shock collars have out there. There is a large thread on Dogsey about it and masses of info on there in regards to the pros and cons of using it.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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26-01-2010, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Emrad View Post
I would be also be saying to your friend to feel it on herself, dogs still feel pain even though they arent human. There is masses of documentation to the cruelty and the negative impacts that shock collars have out there. There is a large thread on Dogsey about it and masses of info on there in regards to the pros and cons of using it.
She told me she'd try it on herself before she puts it on him........

I hope she does, at least that way the dog might not have to be subjected to it.
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Emma
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26-01-2010, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post
She told me she'd try it on herself before she puts it on him........

I hope she does, at least that way the dog might not have to be subjected to it.
In all fairness she should try it on her neck and the highest zap. There are plenty of studies done that have shown dogs can associate the shock and become aggressive as they can't always associate it with recall/barking etc
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mse2ponder
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26-01-2010, 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post
Well it depends, some dogs are just chasers (a field trial winning GWP took off after a pheasant on a shoot day last year) and Spinones are renound for chasing things (the dog in question is a Spinone).

I do agree though and have said as much - sometimes you just have to accept your dog will never be top rank and love him for what he is. Kinda fell on deaf ears though.
Freda chased a bit when she was younger but with a lot of patience, she's pretty much out of it! There are articles online which say just let them chase, but never reward it and they'll eventually work out what they're supposed to be doing, and some sources advocate punishment. There's so much stuff out there, and unfortunately, people see the full-page ads in Shooting Times or whatever and buy an e-collar.

I think some of the reason they get into chasing is being exposed to too much too early on - All Purpose Gundog (David Layton) says retrieving game shouldn't be introduced until the second season of a dog's life nor until the dog is, "absolutely steady to flush, shot and fall". I know with Freda this could have been the case, as she was so eager to work, and is really hunty, so it was easy to take her out and do too much, too early.

It says to teach a dog to hold a point using a long line. Once it's on point, take up the line and gently hold it near the dog, stroking along the back and "whisper[ing] words of steadiness" (!). The dog should not be made to flush, but to drop at the flush, whether it's natural or man made. It's quite an old book (and in places, it really shows) but I'm sure there are some really decent reads out there - maybe you could convince her to send the collar back and get some good reading material instead!

Freda is pretty much steady now - I won't say completely and jinx her, but she's doing really well. I'm so proud of her, even though she's taken much longer than the others to become reliable - it's only her second season though. Lots of people said that she's be sorted with a few zaps, but it's much more rewarding to put the effort in and actually get the dog working for you and listening to you, because that's useful in other situations - not just chasing.

Good luck, and I hope you can convince her to ditch the e-collar!
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