Cesar's past work. References good or bad.

Is there any evidence anywhere from any of Cesar's clients as to weather he has done a good job or a bad job.

Surely if he is so misguided there will be people standing up about it.

I find it disappointing, but I occasionally talk to people that have watched his show and claim to be getting good results using his methods. In fact, many dogs are resilient to do OK with his harsh, negative methods.

In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king. As bad as his methods are, dogs trained with them are better than untrained ones. That there are quicker, easier ones, doesn't mean you can't get the job done with them.

Look at the way we continue negative methods on people although positive ones work better.

I know people who claim a great deal of success with his more 'positive' methods.

He might make them sign a disclaimer or contract meaning that they're unable to discuss the methods used/effects with third parties? In a litigious society, he may well have covered his back to prevent damage to his reputation or lawsuits? It's possible and would account for a lack of public discussion from his clients (unless vetted perhaps!) - I guess we'll never know.

i read one of his books, its like an episode guide, and it has follow ups written in it as to how the dog has improved or if they havent at all. was quite interesting really.

There was a case a few years back where a dog died a few hours after it's owner had dropped it in for the day for training. It had been tied up by a choke chain to a treadmill and left to run.

Any webpages that I had bookmarked on the case are now long gone. Youtube videos pointing out bad techniques and downfalls on his part are regularly removed as are other many webpages discussing his "training" methods. (Though some manage to still remain, I guess it's a case of careful wording.)

He or NG must have a team of people to keep track of such things and have them removed should they reflect badly on CM. I would say contracts signed by people appearing on the shows are very carefully worded.

Mee too! The only people I have ever come across with negative views are those on dog sites like this one. Every single person I meet when out walking, or in the pub, every single one who claim to use Cesar's methods rave about them.

Hand on heart, I have not had one person say to me "it didn't work". I have had one person say to me that she stopped using his methods because she found it difficult to be the person that she needed to be, that it didn't sit comfortably with her. But that is the only dissenter, and I don't count that as a failure of Cesar's methods, but just that this person was honest enough to admit that she found she couldn't be the person she needed to be. This sounds very muddled, but I know what I mean !!

In terms of numbers, I would say that I know of at least 20 owners whom I meet on a regular or intermittent basis who claim to use Cesar's methods, with great success.

The people who I have met who have said they use his methods and they work, when you actually ask them what they do, it is things that any decent dog trainer wouls suggest...as to things going wrong - not that I know of with dogs he has worked with, but many people who have come to me after they have tried what they have seen

Yes, but have they just ignored all the advice, and waded in there tssting and oiing and clicking their fingers all over the place, without truly knowing what they are doing? I am talking about sensible people who like myself have watched the programme, read at least one book and generally done their homework ... if not eaten the stew ... and have a good grounding in how to have a well balanced dog ... like wot I've got !!

Yep - and thats great...but I still have to deal with the rest...including the ones that can no longer be saved. Its great that you feel he gives something that others obviously do not (in your mind) but helping several does not excuse the one that ends up biting and being pts.

We have had this discussion before and I am not going there again...I will not change your mind and you will not change mine as long as I am dealing with the fallout .