I've seen dogs with queen anne legs work, i suppose its the same as anything it depends on how severe, i have never put one in to a working home though we had one a couple of years ago where they were quiet severe and the vet said to leave well alone as they weren't bothering him, it probably wouldn't restrict their working life springers tend to have a high pain threshold and don't know when to stop, our gamekeepers dog had his shoulder pinned last year after an altercation with a badger (we think) hasn't stopped him doing a full season this year, out of the 600 or so that have come through rescue in the last few years we have only seem a couple that have had queen anne legs

I have just checked back in The Book of the Dog (1949) and Hutchinsons Encyclopedia of the Dog (1930) In both they say the springer developed from the cocker and the cocker is an older breed. Many pictures and paintings show spaniels who are very small and who look similar to Etta but are either just called spaniels or were cockers. The first KC height was 19" for springers and they were duel purpose in those days. The ears were much shorter and more practical but at the same time the cockers seemed to be getting longer ears for showing. This was beginning of 20 cent.

So basically the KC set the height but the working folk carried on doing what worked.

No noticable weird legs but lots of broad chests which would lead to the legs eventually. Probably broad chest means more breathing capacity and stamina????

The show height hasn't changed but the ears certainly have. Some of the early pictures/paintings of springers look like setters---I need a scanner!

rune

I think its more the coat length thats changed rather than the ears themselves, also the ears should be low set, yet many working dogs have ears set level with the top of their head, this will also give the impression they are smaller as they are set higher.

Dont agree with the stamina bit, look at sight Hounds, you need look no further than the Saluki, Sloughi, Afghan etc.. they are stamina breeds which can outrun Antelope, they are very narrow indeed. What some refer to as heart room, would be depth not width.

Can I ask what you mean by 'over-populated', and where you've got that stat from? There was a KC registered springer which sired 2,538 puppies. It has been alluded to, that this was a show dog, but I can't find anything to verify this. Working or show, popular sires are detrimental to closed populations (see below).

http://www.canine-genetics.com/

Do you have anything to back up what you said about the 'queen anne' leg thing? I know people who have them and they've worked the same seasons as 'normal' dogs and shown no sign of discomfort. To me, it looks like they'd suffer from a higher incidence of arthritis or something, but I have nothing to support that. Show/pet basset hounds are bred with a similar deformity but I don't know whether they actually suffer from joint problems, or whether it's more the stunted movement people dislike. I have to agree though - queen anne legs do look a bit unnatural which may or may not come at a cost to the dog.

Nope---the ears changed---bringing with it ear problems.

Why should the ears be set low?

The reason I put question marks after the stamina bit was because I don't know. But but going all day over all terrains is not the same as the huge spurts of speed that the sight hounds do. Best compared with wsd's.

rune

They should be set low because the breed standard for THAT breed says so, level with the eye. After all, its a Springer Spaniel, right?

Stamina is stamina. I cannot think of any dogs, or indeed an any animal, that has deformed front legs and a wide front, when its job is stamina, can you? Im thinking, Cats, Horses, Dogs etc...

I think the broad chest is a very good reason for the Queen Anne legs though not sure why this has happened.

The springer does indeed originate from the cocker, in fact my understanding is that springers were just larger cockers until they were recognised as the Norfolk spaniel?

http://www.ariel-ess.com/essfaq/history.html

The size is as quoted here ''By 1800, three general classifications were established: cockers, used for woodcock weighed up to 25 lbs. Larger dogs, 17-18 inches tall and weighing 35 to 45 lbs. were field or English spaniels. These included springers, field, Sussex, and the Clumber. Miniature, or toy, spaniels fancied by King Charles and the Duke Norfolk, were called "Comforters".

An interesting article, especially the description page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Springer_Spaniel

LOL----so the ears need to be set low because someone decided it looked better---maybe the reason working dogs are set higher is because it is more practical and they don't get the ear problems as badly.

As to the last remark---yes I can---springers do!

rune

depth of chest gives more lung room, witdth doesnt make any diff really.

a full days work and still raring to chase a ball the next day