Saw this sign the other day on a similar walk to that described by Azz, .... Forest bordered by pastureland. When sauntering along you tend to forget about the possibility of livestock suddenly appearing.

Shocked at this post Azz. Really shocked.

I have lived in farming communities all my life and many farmers are poor. Their stock is their living and contrary to your view they care deeply about the welfare of their stock.

They are living creatures . Not tins of beans. Farmers work long hours with lambing etc.

My present landlord had tears in his eyes when he told me how dogs had attacked his in lamb ewes tearing the wombs out of them


Apart from his caring and that aspect his stock is food for his children.

A dog that has acquired a a taste for killing must be shot. Period. In fact a dog here does not have to be worrying sheep; simply being on a farmer's land is a death warrant.

Years ago in Scotland a neighbours dog rampaged through sheep killed 11 in lamb ewes , a terrible loss for the farmer and heartbreaking.

He shot the dog and a notice went in the local paper that any dog seen on his land would be shot. Quite legal.

Where land is wide and widespread as here in Ireland guarding in the way you describe is not practicable.

IF you are so attachd to your dog then keep it totally under control as your dog will pay a high price for negligence
But do not expect farmers to accept the naivete of your ideas.

Rosebud, I have to agree with you. I dislike that post by AZZ immensely and disagree completely TBH. Farmers SHOULD be able to shoot dogs threatening the lives of their livestock. Without question.

How DARE someone say that the dog means more to the owner than the livestock means to the farmer?!?! The livestock is very important to the farmer, otherwise they'd not go to extreme measures to protect it!

Perhaps the context isn't the same... or perhaps it is? Who are we to say? Not like it matters! The farmers animals mean a lot to him, same as our dogs mean a lot to us. A dog owner cannot judge the importance like that... for doing that is called being BIASED!

A farmer could easily twist things and say his livestock are his life, his families food, his money, his living, his essence and they are FAR more important than a spoiled housepet. So please... the high and mighty really isn't called for here.

Not ALL livestock are meat animals... there are dairy farms and whatnot, you know? As much as I'd hate seeing a dog shot for invading a farm and terrorizing the animals, I think the farmer had his rights to do so and should NOT ave to go through any lengths to protect his livestock.

Again, what we need to be promoting here is the proper handling of our dogs as owners, not adverse ways to deal with questionable to poor dog handling. Yes it would be nice if we came up with a quick and totally effective way of dealing with dogs that have invaded farms, but there really is no such way.

Same as Fenton, that man did a poor job of controlling his dog and HE should be held responsible. The dog wasn't paying him even a remote amount of attention. How one can say the man wasn't a bad dog owner from that video really is beyond me. Looks like a bad dog owner to me, but perhaps I am seeing things?

If those were say sheep from a farm... I have no doubt that a gunshot would have been needed, lest the farmer loses a sheep or two. i have to side with the farmers on this one, your dog doesn't mean more than their livestock... I'm sorry but IMO it's wrong to say that.

It's up to us to protect our dogs, which means keeping them under control at all times. I have made my fair share of mistakes, but I seek not to repeat them. Perhaps this is the curves of things... You get a dog shot by a farmer, I grant you will be a LOT more careful next time.

An animal is an animal and I am an animal lover. My view is if you love your animal you will do everything necessary within the law (whether you are happy about it or not) to keep your animal safe.

Whether you be the owner of a pet dog or a farmer with livestock.

If I allowed my dog to wander off where there was even the slightest possibility of her being shot at under the laws of the land I would see that as akin to me deciding to wander about in a minefield just hoping I wouldn't be unlucky enough to step on one.

I havn't got through the whole thread yet but I think the farmers are getting a raw deal, especially when saying because a dog is a pet and loved like a family member it of greater value than the farmers business. I'm not a farmer but my partner does have his own business and as much as I love my dogs and other peoples I would be pretty angry if someone said a pet dog was more important than our livelihood. I live in a rural farming area and dogs do get out and worry sheep I have never once known a farmer to shoot first. Last year my neighbour had over ten lambs killed in the space of two days, he went about everywhere asking if anyone had seen a loose dog and if they did to catch it up. But he was also clearlY devastated that the animals he had nurtured were being preyed on.
I don't know many farmers who would kill a dog as their first course, most try and have a word and present a bill the first few times.
I also know the fury of having your stock killed by someone's dog. I keep chickens and one day my fathers animal slaughtered the lot of them, last week she also got into someone's garden apparently and killed their ducks.
I only kept my chickens for eggs but they were such characters, if they were also my livlehood and business it would be even more upsetting and devastating not less so.
And it's not fair to say the farmer could be compensated by his insurance because his premiums will go up then and that is so unfair!
Surely it's easier for people who want to have a pet dog to work really hard on their recall or use a lead than to ask all farmers and small holders to have a tranquilizer gun so where on their property?

For all those out there who have never had an out of control dog....has there never, ever been a time when you called your off lead dog and he didn't come back immediately, hand on heart? In that short time he was out of control, and it's only the circumstances that make it OK or not. Dogs are real, unpredictable creatures, so never say never cos it can happen to you.
I had a GSD who worked obedience at a quite high level and I would have BET MY LIFE that I could drop him, stop him, or call him off of ANYTHING. We had experience of cattle, deer and sheep; no problems. However, one day there was one sheep who had escaped and walked miles to get to an area which was supposed to be sheep-free, and it managed to leap up from under a path, right under my Shepherd's nose, and despite my best and instant reaction...HE WENT . Like a rocket. Half a mile. Over a cliff. Sheep and dog landed in different places (fortunately), were both rescued by the coastguard, and amazingly were both unhurt, though probably the sheep was a bit shaken up.
It was the worst and most frightening experience ever and I never thought it would happen to me, but after 20 years of owning well-trained dogs, it did. So...don't get smug or complacent, and yes, if this had happened on a farmer's land he would have had the right, and been right, to shoot my dog.

Just to add..at the time of this incident, the dog was no more than ten feet from me, so distance didn't have an effect on control. Unless you keep your dog on lead all the time then "there but for the grace of God..."

What a horrible experience for you.

I agree with your last comments.

We are all expected to abide by the laws of the land in which we live. If we don't agree with those laws - most of us have the freedom to campaign to get them changed.

I also understood that a dog just 'frightening' sheep can cause a lot of damage? Not just if they kill or maim them.

[QUOTE=Tang;2789121]What a horrible experience for you.

I agree with your last comments.

We are all expected to abide by the laws of the land in which we live. If we don't agree with those laws - most of us have the freedom to campaign to get them changed.

I also understood that a dog just 'frightening' sheep can cause a lot of damage? Not just if they kill or maim them.[/QUOTE]

Yes indeed. Sheep are nervous critters and alarm easily. There is the famous scene in one of Thomas Hardy's novels where an inexperienced dog spooks a whole flock off a cliff. So easily done or into barbed wire fences etc.

My landlord is agonisng re putting his sheep up here where ther eis still good pasture for them after the winter. At this time oif year every blade of grass is precious until the new growth starts. last time he has sheep up here a dog got at them, tore the wombs out of several, terrified the rest into aborting.

They did not catch the dog.Since then he has only had cattle up here and i keep an eye on them for him as i have done sheep for other landlords. This house was empty then so we think maybe the presence of my (well confined) dogs will deter others.

They are of course in lamb at this time.So doubly precious.

I think a lof ot the problem for some here is simply the difference in perception between town and country life. Farm dogs are different.

When I was first here, my landlord made sure that I was fully in control of my two ( they are not even allowed outside the door without me) and i made sure that his fences were perfect so that there could be no doubt. His fences are immaculate thankfully so we were both happy.

have only seen one dog here; a very shaggy collie that I had heard went walkabout. He leaped the back fence, realised my two were here and you never saw a dog take off so fast or get through such a small gap under the gate

Wise words.. My two are never ever where they can access livestock. I walk them down the mile long private lane early in the day and even when there are cattle here they are firmly fenced and gated

Only accident ever was when wee dog got tossed by a cow that had got into MY GARDEN in the dark.. Four of the great things and when the landlord ( house before this one) arrived I was holding them at bay with a big red mop... ate all my flowers they did and the runner beans..