If you spend so much training and your dogs are so good, what do you use an e-collar for?? What situations have you used the ecollar for? Why is it better than using normal training techniques which you say you already use (strong scents, food rewards, whistles)
Bit childish making out your dogs are better than ours. Most of us are quite happy with our obedient dog which we've trained in a kind way. Watched your video link and to be honest I've seen my friends videos who is a dog handler for the British Army that do similar training. Just texted him to see if they advocate using Ecollars. Just got my answer, in 15 years training dogs, no he hasn't. Funny that

So far I have stayed away from this thread, but I understand your use of a e-collar as a last resort, and In spike's case if it is used to keep him alive, then I won't condem you as you are trying, I have seen and felt what you have felt, with your dog being so far away from being shot, by a farmer.

Same old story, person gets slammed for solving an issue that has saved her dogs life! Do people REALLY think if all this terrible pain was inflicted, the dog would come near the owner?

I for one haven't used the word pain, in any of my posts. The only thing i have said it that dogs have different pain thresholds. Also as the collar is remote the dog is not aware the owner is causing the shock, so why would the dog be scared and not come near the owner. As we're all aware people do disgusting things to animals causing them awful pain and cruelty. A lot of the dogs will still be near the owner though, so I don't understand your comment Borderdawn
Also can we just be aware that Sally only posted recently (post 463, her last post) on this thread that her dog had already had two reprieves. If people don't have the full facts at the beginning then they can only post on what has gone previously. More and more info has come out as the thread has progressed. SallyinLancs asked me some questions and I have tried to help her by giving her ideas. I have not read her other thread which others say have been posted so can only go on what's been said here. I trained my dog and got through the problem, if however I had not, I would have kept my dogs completely away from livestock. Hard to do as I live surrounded by livestock but I would have found a way
I understand that when you feel pushed into a corner you'll try anything. When I had the neighbours being very nasty saying my dogs were barking all day (turned out they in fact weren't) for one second I did think about getting a collar, but I didn't I spent months trying out different ideas to find out what worked. Yes my dogs life was perhaps not the line but I still worried like hell that if I didn't solve the problem, I could have them taken away or face a huge fine. Still not a nice place to be

I have never said it is terrible pain but I object to people candy coating it and refusing to aknowledge that if there is no pain involved it would not work. I also think that as it is remote, the dog does not realise that this pain is being inflicted by the owner.
Has the issue been solved?
Without sounding harsh, if you live somewhere with sheep at the bottom of your garden then maybe a dog with a high prey drive is not for you

Any dog can be taught not to chase, some though are obsessed and uncontrollable around such creatures and most attempts at stopping the obsession is futile. If the collar works, then fine, cant see a problem with it. Its easy to slam folk when they have never had experience of the issue at hand, Id like to see how many fair if its them that was faced with this problem.

If you see my previous posts, I did have experience of it. My dog kept finding a way out of the garden as well for a while straight into the back field filled with sheep, goats etc. Then he'd be an idiot if we saw sheep around and rush up and down the hedge trying to find a way through. A dog that normally was wellbehaved off lead that just went deaf. Funny thing was it only all started when he was nearly two. Sparked off by a sheep coming out of nowhere and running in front of him. So i did travel 80 miles round trip to a friends farm, most weekends and in the evenings to work on him. I knew that he wouldn't hurt the sheep physically but that doesn't stop the sheep from having a panic. So now i've turned it around and turned what was a bad thing into a good one with the dog enjoying himself
I mainly made such an extra effort as I holiday with friends in Scotland who live on an estate so sheep are flippin everywhere.

I have to agree with sallyinlancs here. I have never used or seen an ecollar but my opinion is if something works for you and your dogs, gives them a better quality of life then done properly and with no harm to the dog it can only be a good thing.

I also live in an area heavily populated with sheep. During the winter my dogs can have endless off lead walks. Summer is different we have 3/4 of an acre that is dog proofed. Other than that the dogs are only on lead in the summer. Until the time comes when we can securely fence in the rest of our field that would enable us to let them run free with sheep in the next field I have had to come up with other ways of excercising them including biking etc.

I completely disagree that dogs should never be let off lead. It is perfectly obvious to me that my dogs are happiest off lead and no amount of on lead exercise will make up for the looks on their faces as they all charge around playing together.

My dogs are obedience trained, have excellent recall and all have alot of time spent with them. I have from them being puppies let them walk past fields of sheep and they have grown up with this. I also know for a fact that if they did happen to see sheep in the next field off lead and were able to get through the fence then all recall and training would be gone with at least one of them.

I also take offence at being told that if we live somewhere with sheep then we should not have a dog with a high prey drive!! Nobody knows each others circumstances and also any breed of dog can have a high prey drive.

I would never knock something that I have not experienced for myself and therefore wouldn't say I disagree with an e collar. I also would if given the opportunity try one with my dogs. I would know immediately if they were upset by it or if it worked and gave them more freedom.

I would rather NOT send an electrical charge through my dog, just to 'up' it's value !

Yes, because we know it's going to 'HURT' if it stings, causing PAIN !

It's a survival rection of not wanting to be hurt, so you are saying an e-collar is the same !

Then what's the point of putting one on ? If it doesnt cause pain, or fear of pain then why not just train with a plain old collar ?

What's wrong with that ? Many dogs have good, happy fulfilling lives this way without being in danger of being shot or electrified !

I wasn't aware that the 'issue' was solved at all, hence Sallyinlancs' consideration to continue using one to get the desired response !

I AM faced with this everyday. I live amongst many sheep farms and the lane outside my front door is used for herding sheep to and from various fields on a daily basis, and yes my breed are sheep worriers.

How do I fair ? I'll tell you ...

The sheep are safe and so are my dogs, because they are kept on leads And no electric shocks here, and 2 very happy dogs

Perhaps start a thread telling us what thoseoptions are, maybe we can help expand on them or offer advice for alternatives / tweaks ?

That`s a rather extreme example - if it were windy enough to blow a tree over would you leave the dog in the garden anyway ? Seriously ?
And it`s a non-viable hypothetical anyway as you would still have to be present to zap him with the collar...

Or use a ongline and not expose him to something he can`t handle. Why does it keep being ignored that you have a legal duty as does everyone else to keep dogs on leads where there are livestock ?
And that includes when walking past a field of them, sheep can abort through fright because of a dog on the far side of a fence as easily as with a dog on their side of it.


If it were `so productive` how come you still have the issue ?