Most likely I’ve posted this link on this thread already, but for those that have missed it;
http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html This person explains the above much more eloquently than I can. :smt001

my 2 fall upon blackberry bushes with shrieks of glee and also gather windfalls whenever they can. They are not as keen on fruit as they were when they were pups but they certainly love to forage!!!!

I thought this link was amazing to compare the skulls
http://www.skullsunlimited.com/carnivores.htm

and proof that even the most meat eaty eaters can live on veg....
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...22/i2/lion.asp

No Evie, they have crushing molars as well for the grinding and crushing of bones and vegetable food

Take a look in any dogs mouth. No flat broad teeth, no sideways jaw action. Both required to break down the veg and fruit. No such teeth in my dogs mouths when I last checked.

For about the sixth time, I am posting this quote from The University of Edinburgh's research website :

Wolves (Canis lupus) feed mainly but not exclusively on flesh, deer caribou, moose, beaver, hares, domestic livestock and plant material. The carnassial teeth shear flesh; crushing milars process vegetable food.

I am finding it very difficult to be polite !!

Gnasher and Evie

I don't think there will be an outcome, as different research is 'proving' different things. So we are relying on them for answers, but they are all saying the opposite (much like the vaccine debate within the vet group)
So we have to either agree to disagree or say that there is not enough info at this time, and therefore we can only judge by what we as individuals feel makes the most sense...?

I have to disagree with the university of Edinburgh then.

I am open to new ideas and evidence about feeding dogs; if there was ever strong enough evidence that says veg and fruit is of benefit I would rethink my way of feeding immediately. After all, I want is what is best for my dogs.

However there has been no evidence on this thread (or anywhere else I have read) that has convinced me that my dogs will benefit from the addition of veg and fruit to their diet. So I am happy to continue on as I have been; feeding a variety of meat, bone and organ. :smt001

I cannot see what is to be gained by being so unbending and refusing to contemplate adding a little fruit/veg/rice/leftovers etc to a mainly Raw diet.

If it turns out in time that no dogs are harmed by a religiously Raw diet, then no harm has been done by the owner who adds, say, 1 tablespoon other food as above other than providing unnecessary bulk to the diet and wasting their own time pulping veg.

On the other hand if we find later that a Raw diet does not offer everything the dog needs then those who added the extras will have done well by their dogs compared to those who did not.

I can't see what could be lost by hedging your bets and adding a small amount of other foods, mainly veg.

We are moving away from the wolf as a model for behaviour yet at the same time embracing the concept of dog-as-wolf for diet. Seems to me we are trying to have it both ways.

I have a feeling that in 10 years time the religiously Raw diet will be looked upon as rather extreme and possibly harmful by its exclusion of small amounts of other foods, in which case I would be mortified to think that an unbending attitude could have harmed my dog in the meantime.

Absolutely red collar, I said the same think myself, way back in this debate. I just cannot understand an obvious dog lover refusing to doing something that is 1) cheap, 2) fairly simple and 3) at worst a total waste of time and money, at best the best thing she could do for her dogs.

Suck it and see, if, after say, 4-6 weeks, she can see no obvious improvement, then fine, don't do it.

Where it comes to the health of my beloved pets, I see everything clearly in black and white. This is a black and white situation, just do it, if you don't perceive positive results, then don't do it.