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Gnasher
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01-06-2016, 07:33 AM
Gosh ... this is going to sound really harsh but even if the child was at risk, I still think it totally wrong to have shot the gorilla so quickly at the very least. Gorillas are an endangered species, the human species is not ... it is getting to the stage where we just have out to rethink about putting human life first over all other animal species. That is not to say that this was not a terrifying situation for all concerned, and I would defend to my last breath the right of any animal including us to protect ourselves and our own, in this situation it was morally wrong and totally unacceptable to shoot an endangered wild animal entrusted to our care.

What sort of message does this send out to the poachers in Africa?

And if it had been my grandson in that situation I would be saying the same thing ... although I would not have allowed such a stupid thing to happen in the first place.

Sorry if I have offended anybody, but I feel very strongly about this subject.
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Jackie
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01-06-2016, 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
G

Sorry if I have offended anybody, but I feel very strongly about this subject.
I`m not offend by your view I just think its a warped sense of morality to be honest, to even think that a childs life is less than ANY animal is beyond me.

I agree this is a terrible tragic thing to happen, and I bet no one is feeling the loss of this majestic creature more than those who have raised and cared for him from birth to his untimely death.

Are you honestly saying that they should not of acted when they did , to wait and see what happened

There is a very good article on FB that is written by someone who has studied and worked with gorillas for very long time, and KNOWS how they react and their body language and she stated that the gorilla was NOT protecting this child he was acting in a worrying way, his posture was threatening and she says that there was not a chance in hell he was going to give that child up.

Now call me stupid or what! but all this crap that is being thrown around the net by people who have`nt a clue about this species (other than watching them on TV ) saying the gorilla was "protecting " the child, well for gods sake did they miss the bit where it was dragging the child around

I think I would be putting my trust in the experts rather than well meaning sentimental people, let the gorilla kill the child even if he did not mean it.

Gnasher ...I cant believe for one minute you would allow a gorilla to throw your 4 yr old g/son around with possible death, before you would let them shoot the animal doing it....... I don`t know about you , but for me the safety of my children/g/children would be paramount, I would be mourning the death of such a magnificent creature after my child was safe.
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Gnasher
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01-06-2016, 09:39 AM
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. We do not know - even the experts - what the gorilla would have done ... my own thoughts that it would have been very difficult to retrieve the child, but that does not mean he would have hurt the child. I am not sentimental, I am using my logic when I say that we just cannot carry on thinking that we as a species are the most important on this planet ... there are far too many of us by millions if not billions, our numbers are unsustainable.

Jackie, it is not a question of me allowing a gorilla to throw my 2 year old grandson around - it simply would not have happened in the first place because I would watch him like a hawk whilst in a potentially dangerous place like a zoo, especially bearing in mind that he is totally fearless of all animals and has to be curbed constantly from rushing up to them. I can just picture Alfie in 2 years time doing exactly the same thing as the boy in question, without my constant vigilance keeping a hawk eye on him!

We are currently selling my mother's house ... a beautiful harris hawk is kept in an aviary in the garden and is flown every day by either our gardener or the owner. Alfie is intrigued by her and one day I was holding him in my arms and the hawk was sitting up on one of the beams of the garage. Suddenly she flew straight at Alfie's head in an obvious attempt to at best frighten him, or at worst to rake him with her talons. I immediately flung him behind my back, putting my body between him and the hawk whilst his owner sent her flying straight upwards and away from Alfie. No harm done ... Alfie learned that the pretty bird was essentially a wild animal and not to be trifled with, and my and the owner's alertness and vigilance were proved to be correct. The hawk would not of course have killed Alfie, but could have maimed him or even blinded him; but should I insist on the owner removing the hawk instantly? Should I demand she is shot? No, of course not, and my response would be the same had Alfie been hurt. It would have been totally my fault for not respecting a wild animal's right to attack what she perceived as a threat.

Next time I take Alfie there, he will be taken to see the hawk and he will doubtless remember what happened and retell me the story in great detail!! He was not in the slightest bit fazed by a large hawk swooping straight at his face. He is always extremely gentle with animals, never rough like a lot of youngsters can be. He never shows any fear, but now hopefully he has learned that they are unpredictable and deserve respect.
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Jackie
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01-06-2016, 10:09 AM
We know it should not have happened, bit it did , if and buts mean nothing, no we don`t know if the gorilla would have hurt/killed the child, gut instinct is not much good when the child is dead is it.

The reality is that the keepers could not take the chance the gorilla would not hurt the child, they know the animal, we don`t so they are the ones who have to make the call....

I would have to put my trust in their knowledge of the animal and species to do what is right......not someones gut instinct who is sitting behind a computer screen or protesting with placards that the gorillas was not dangerous.

Can you imagine the outcry if they had left it any longer and the child died !
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Jackie
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01-06-2016, 10:21 AM
The hawk would not of course have killed Alfie, but could have maimed him or even blinded him; but should I insist on the owner removing the hawk instantly? Should I demand she is shot? No, of course not, and my response would be the same had Alfie been hurt. It would have been totally my fault for not respecting a wild animal's right to attack what she perceived as a threat.
Not really sure how this can compare with the gorilla to be honest, the hawk was sweeping down, it could get away, you were there to protect or shoo it off the worse that could have happened was a scratch to the head , so why would you ask for it to be shot.

The gorrila on the other hand has the strength of 10 men, it has a child in its grasp in an enclosed area, that no one else could go into to help the child out...... are you seriously saying the two are comparable
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waggytail
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01-06-2016, 10:47 AM
The whole incident is desperately sad, I think the Zoo did the only thing they could under the circumstances, the Gorilla could have injured or killed the child at any time, even if unintentionally, the footage of the boy being dragged through the water and the mother screaming is very disturbing.

The zoo maybe needs to review its safety barriers but if this was a freak accident (parental negligence?) I feel very sorry for them being forced into a position where the only option was to shot a beautiful rare animal that they have raised and cared for from a tiny baby to 17 years of age.
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Gnasher
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01-06-2016, 04:11 PM
Only in theory Jackie - as you say, the gorilla was 10 times more dangerous than the Harris Hawk ... nevertheless, it is a large and powerful raptor and could have blinded Alfie had I not reacted as I did. Had it done so, there is no way I would have wanted it hurt in any way. That is the point I am making - why should the gorilla have been hurt - shot dead - particularly when he hadn't even done anything? It is utterly ridiculous, over-zealous and nanny state.

Yes you are right - had the child been killed doubtless there would have been a hue and cry - exactly as there is now, but in favour of the gorilla.

The incident is desperately sad for the Zoo, I agree, but I personally think their duty is to the animals - not the idiot humans who allow their sprogs to get into a wild animal's home and put itself at risk. To my mind there were many options open to the zoo other than to kill this beautiful animal.
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Crysania
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01-06-2016, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
Well they won't will they, Americans carry guns as a 'right' and every day somewhere a child/teenager/adult is shot and killed, the death toll is horrendous, but they hang onto that 'right' So the death of a gorilla will be as nothing to them
For the record, Americans are not all alike. Yes we have a huge problem with guns here but a lot of us would like to see some serious restrictions put in place.
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Jackie
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01-06-2016, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Only in theory Jackie - as you say, the gorilla was 10 times more dangerous than the Harris Hawk ... nevertheless, it is a large and powerful raptor and could have blinded Alfie had I not reacted as I did. Had it done so, there is no way I would have wanted it hurt in any way. That is the point I am making - why should the gorilla have been hurt - shot dead - particularly when he hadn't even done anything? It is utterly ridiculous, over-zealous and nanny state.

Yes you are right - had the child been killed doubtless there would have been a hue and cry - exactly as there is now, but in favour of the gorilla.

The incident is desperately sad for the Zoo, I agree, but I personally think their duty is to the animals - not the idiot humans who allow their sprogs to get into a wild animal's home and put itself at risk. To my mind there were many options open to the zoo other than to kill this beautiful animal.
Did you miss the bit where it dragged the child around by his leg....do you really think that was nothing.

Still can't see the connection between the hawk and the gorilla
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Crysania
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01-06-2016, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
Did you miss the bit where it dragged the child around by his leg....do you really think that was nothing.

Still can't see the connection between the hawk and the gorilla
I think the issue is that HAD he done anything, there would have been no way to stop him and it would have happened so quickly no doubt the child would have been dead in seconds. And that could even be through his trying to help.

I am very torn on this. I can understand their actions. They couldn't let the gorilla kill the child. They couldn't tranquilize him as that can cause brief aggression. They tried luring the gorilla away and it wasn't coming. What do you do in that case? It's a terrible decision to make.
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