Murphy
Denis/Clob didn't you used to be a supplier for was it Tri-tronic or Dogtra ?

Clob
No but I think I know where you thought that from. I use and recomend either Tri Tronics or Dogtra collars, also, for a period of about a week I started to set up a training division for someone connected to Dogtra collars, but, I cant talk about that at all because there is a copyright issue.

I've never sold collars at any time except one of mine when a client at the time was ready to start training, he bought mine and I upgraded to a later model which takes around a week to get here.

Thats what it was ..thanks for clarifying

Apologies to those who are now glazed but just wanted to make sure Clod sees this again.

so where most of us reach for a collar and lead you reach for an e collar?
have you ever tried any other method of training?
if some one came to you for advice you would automatically tell them to get an e collar without trying other methods first?
there is alot of tools and methods out there to help train all issues with dogs not just E COLLARS.

the more i read this thread the more it seems that its just a stunt to get people interested in e collars, if the only method you have ever used is this type of tool or aid or what ever you wish to be lable it as then you need to be more open minded as to ways of training any dog.
you can defend e collars as much as you like to makes no odds to me i still don't like them and don't think that will ever change.
can you imagine it if we used this type of thing on our kids.......your'll be done for cruelty or physical abuse in my eyes its the same thing even if it is just the family dog.

:smt043 :smt043 :smt043
I wanted to say something similar but lost the will to live after the poor English in the first article.

CLOB, Can we go back to this?

I've read your links so can you answer?

medical question
if you have a dog with some form of medical problem wouldn't the shock for the e collar cause problems?
ie a dog with a heart problem who could miss beats due to a condition then get a surge of electricity though the collar interfere with the beat?
with some dogs surely if the heart is weak it could cause missed beats or worse.

This is a very good point Clob and one that is obviously bothering a lot of us, but one you don't appear to have answered.

Leo
don't you see the results from the other methods?

Clob
What other methods do you mean? my guess is you use many of the same methods as me but other things which I use you do not need with the dogs you have.

The few of those dogs I have bumped into were all laid back and did not need much training. Size can be a deciding factor but its not my experience that size ratio problems are statistically large scale problems.

Apart from that I do not know why you and most of the others keep referring to e-collars as a ‘training method’ they are not a training method and the only two people on here who know anything at all about them have never said they are a training method, they are a training ‘aid’ and these days the most popular training aid of all time, which is why their commercial competitors are ranting about them.

Basically what you and some others are saying is this:
“I have never used an e-collar, consequently I cannot know anything about them how they work or how they are used, but, I know more than those who use them including specialists and I don’t want people to use them”

leo
it seems to me you only think of the e collars as a tool or method to train any dog regardless of size or breed or in fact if there is a real need to start with.

Clob
“It seems to you” – well I am not responsible for how you draw conclusions.

Leo
i have a trusting bond with both of my dogs they do as i ask to please and the fact i reward them is just a bonus to them.

Clob
Yes me too.

Leo
toby is a working pat dog if he wasn't trained do you honestly think they would allow a person of my size into a hospital visiting kids with a dog i had no control over?

Clob
I have no idea why you are starting to go around in circles and bringing this back again. I said my dog 1985 – 1995 had nothing to do with PAT when he was a therapy dog,

That psychiatric hospital accepted very few dogs and they accepted only on an individual basis, as it happens he was the only one which was ever allowed in the locked ward, others were tried but I was told they were unnerved at times when they need calm nerve. I had to pull him off fast on a few occasions but no matter what he had to simply heel fast and walk calmly out with me.This was a severely disturbed ward not one for age related confined patients.

It was in one of the old psychiatric hospitals with a secure unit for the criminally insane, late 80's. He was allowed on several wards graduating to the more difficult units over about 9 months, including sometimes on a locked ward for short lengths of time, no more than 1/2 hour, most times less.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/shots49/H2.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/shots49/H2.jpg

Someone wrote
I wanted to say something similar but lost the will to live after the poor English in the first article.

Clob
hahahahahahahahah - thats cool

ahh come back often