Cesar Millan - why?

Howdy
Brad here from Missouri.

A friend told me about this group and I ask why y'all hate Cesar Millan when he saves LIVES Does it count for nothing that he rehabilitates so many dogs and saves there lives? So I ask you would you condem the dogs to death or let someone like Cesar give them a bit of tough love to fix there problems and save them, so which one,,, death or life?

Hi Brad and welcome to Dogsey.

If it was one of my dogs I would rather they were PTS than have to go through the treatment that he dishes out.

After all, is a shut down dog really living?

Hello Brad and welcome I don't think anyone here actually 'hates CM' but the methods this TV entertainer uses to train dogs.
There have been many debates about CM on Dogsey and if you put his name into the search facility above you will be able to see them all.

Hi Brad and welcome

As said, it's the methods rather than the actual person.

Cesar comes across as saving lives, and every dog lover would agree that is very important.

However!!

Delve a little deeper and it can be seen that in fact he doesn't really save lives and isn't much of a dog person.

Firstly, he winds up dogs on his programmes, using people, other dogs and so on, so that the dogs appear extremely aggressive. He does this for TV - this is not ethical nor kind.

We have videos from his people showing this. There is one showing a dog being used to wind up other dogs, and CM is laughing about it

Secondly, he conditions or trains dogs to be scared of his feet, hands etc before the cameras roll. Again, this is for TV and not for the dog, who is scared and therefore fearful and therefore is pushed to biting very often. He conditions them by using kicks etc before the programme.

If you have a good relationship with your dog, try putting your foot near to your dog. Does your dog react by being scared? Most dogs don't because they trust their owner. The dogs on his show do react, often with biting, and that is because they are frightened and are defending themselves.

So called "red zone" dogs can be helped by everyday, normal behaviourists and trainers who just happen to not be on Tv

They use various methods which help the dog, depending on what the exact problem is. They may include careful use of stooge dogs (not fighting or anything, it should all be calm and dogs "below threshold" so that dogs can learn, as dogs cannot learn when their reactive brain (emotional brain) is working instead of their thinking brain.

It may also include use of food.
Now people laugh at this, but that is because they don't understand how it is used!

CM doesn't have a clue how it can be used. Of course food is not waved about if a dog is being aggressive, but it is used way before that in the ladder of reactitivy to alter the dog's emotional reactions so the dog learns to be calm.

There is so much more, but basically CM doesnt really know body language and sadly, unethically, sets dogs up so that they cannot do anything to sort the situatoin out for themselves. He does not allow them to appease, he forces them to "fight" so he can back them down.

There are dogs who are serious and who don't back down. e never works with these types of dogs.

Does that tell you something?

To sum up, it looks as if he is making dogs calm but in fact he firstly winds them up, then makes sure they can't appease (so sad, as this is one way dogs communicate with owners) and then sets them up to physically "fight" with them.

Wys
x

Just to add as well that when he is over here (he is due to tour a few places in 2013) he cannot use his extreme methods of choking, pinning, kicking etc because he risks being prosecuted under the Animal Welfare Act we have here

He would breach the DEFRA guidelines.

There have been trainers prosecuted under this Act already, for using very similar methods to CM.

Finally, people working in the dog training and behaviour field in the UK and elsewhere often are called in to help owners who have already been using CMs methods and found their relationship with their dog has got worse, and they are very worried and rightly so.

Some dogs are put to sleep as a direct result of owners watching the TV and copying the methods (because they do, and CM is well aware they do!).

I find this extremely sad.

For me basically the man is all about the money and fame and does not care really very much for the dogs.

I say this after some years of studying what he does and reading many articles, plus my own views and experience of course.

Wys
x

I don't hate CM. I've never met him and it's rarely possible to hate someone you've never met. I do, though, abhor his methods and also the fact that dog owners often follow his doctrine ending up with dogs that are very much in danger of being PTS.

I agree with Wysiwig, but would add that I believe he puts far more dogs in danger through his television programme than ever he could 'save'!

Hi Brad
Agree Wys - well said

It is a myth that Cesar is the last chance for many of these dogs
Many trainers, behaviourists and members of the public - including many people on this site - deal with and save dogs every bit as 'red zone' as the dogs CM works with
The thing is it dosent make as sepctacular tv as they keep the dog below the threshold where they want to attack and actually rewire thier brain chemistry until the dog is mentally calm and happy around the things they once feared
Cesar Millan fights the dog until it has given up on showing people they are uncomfy with the situation - but the fact remains that the dog is still uncomfy with the situation and if pushed further by an unsuspecting person thinking they are 'fixed' because they are no longer reacting then the dog can strike with no warning

Cesar also goads the dogs to bite him on his show - good behaviourists do not get bitten because they can read the dog
Not only is it dangerous to get bitten in your day to day job - but also it is very bad on the dog - a dog in a shelter with a bite history is not able to be rehomed and will often have to be PTS

The saving is also debatable
The poor collie who was kept in the garage for 2 years, because CM couldnt 'fix him' and was arrogent enough to assume that he was the dogs last chance, he had the dog PTS

Holly, the latest dog to bite him only had a food guarding issue - if you search on you tube for 'food guarding its me or the dog usa' you will find dogs just as bad rehabilitated with noone being bitten
But with CM he shows her in his show - but in a later episode we see her at his place - he does not fix her he just rehomes her himself
as for his pack teaching - most dogs will not react when there is a pack of dogs around them - it could start very big fights - it dosent mean they have learnt anything - they will still react when the pack isnt there

Other dogs that CM put in his show but didnt 'save' JonBee the Jindo and Shadow the wolfdog
Both these dogs the lead was used in a noose fashion when he was trying to pin the dogs
ask yourself - if you were fighting someone who had a noose round your neck is it submitting, and would you feel calm, if you stop fighting cos you cant breath any more
I know I would be a bubbling pile of resentment waiting for the guy to turn his back

Ain`t it strange how someone joins the forum just as the PR machine swings into action.......
And this is happening all over other boards as well.
One might almost suspect an actual campaign.

I have to admit i find it very strange that anyone would want to join a new forum just to interrogate them about the fact that they don't like CM?!

I see no reason why not - especially if you hold a different opinion.

Hate's a strong word.

Got to the end of the food guarding lab. The reaction "Well that was really stupid what was the point of that?" probably sums it up for me.

I've seen a few trainers do things where the thought "That's a bit daft" flitted briefly across my mind - no one's perfect - but that plumbed a new level.