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Gnasher
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30-10-2013, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by muddymoodymoo View Post
But unless one tries one won't know, will one?
Absolutely! We will get there with Ben, but I do have my doubts about black labradors, I really do. But it is my life's ambition, so we shall see
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Mattie
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30-10-2013, 11:26 AM
Originally Posted by muddymoodymoo View Post
But unless one tries one won't know, will one?
I didn't say don't try parallel walking, I was just saying it doesn't work for all dogs.
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Julie
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30-10-2013, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post

we will work on this until we have perfection ... as it happens, all this action will be taking place right outside our village hostelry, so that will be our aim - to take Ben into the seating area outside the pub, and we sit there with our dogs and have a drink!! Sounds like an excellent plan!!
Originally Posted by Julie View Post
Probably where I go wrong I never look for perfection, I'm content they are happy and don't mind if they look elsewhere or want to say hello to others as it's there walk more than mine that is important. Even the dogs who would have killed given a chance we used to walk where they didn't have to be perfect and could enjoy their walk in a relaxed manner.

Not being perfect myself I don't look for it in my dogs behaviour, they are pretty perfect as they are though even when they are being naughty.
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Absolutely - me too. I would think that the Obedience people would disagree with me when I say Ben now has an excellent recall!! He comes immediately he is called, but he does not screech to a halt by your side and sit down - he gambols at top speed towards you - it's a wolf thing, it's called clipping - and the last minute he will veer off and immediately stop, turn and come to you so that you can put him on the lead, praise him, whatever you have called him for. With a northern breed like Ben, you would be extremely lucky to get perfection ... put a bit of wolf into the equation, forget it!! I do not want a perfectly behaved dog, I would hate to have a perfectly behaved dog, I like the challenge of my norty boys. To me, if I could just get this large black male thing sorted out, my boys would be perfect!

I think I am getting lost and confused in this thread you said you wanted perfection, I said I didn't look for perfection and you agreed with me
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Mattie
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30-10-2013, 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by Julie View Post
Probably where I go wrong I never look for perfection, I'm content they are happy and don't mind if they look elsewhere or want to say hello to others as it's there walk more than mine that is important. Even the dogs who would have killed given a chance we used to walk where they didn't have to be perfect and could enjoy their walk in a relaxed manner.

Not being perfect myself I don't look for it in my dogs behaviour, they are pretty perfect as they are though even when they are being naughty.
To me it depends on what I want, I want my dogs to come back to me every time I call, I need perfection. When that loose dog had me off my scooter Bonnie and Tilly obeyed my command to leave and stay immediately, I had perfection but my dogs can also tell when I am half hearted with my commands and they are half hearted with how they obey them.

We can try to achieve perfection in what we do even though we don't get it.
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Mattie
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30-10-2013, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Parallel walking WILL work for Ben if it kills me! With a dog weighing 45 kilos you cannot have him lungeing at a dog that is walking past or overtaking. With most dogs Ben will parallel walk now - provided I am between him and the other dog. I tell him firmly to walk on, and leave - if he looks at the other dog - and stride swiftly and determinedly forward.
I think I read somewhere that Ben was attacked by a black Lab which is why he is like this with all black labs, it looks like it could be fear of being attacked again. With Gracie I didn't know her past but she was so practiced at her aggression to other dogs that I couldn't work out why. At that time I also walked a Greyhound and Whippet/JRT with Gracie so couldn't have a dog leaping about either, I tried to keep her in a position were she didn't react, once she was reacting her brain had shut down so nothing I did got through, by keeping her were she didn't react, and hopefully see the other dog, I was able to teach her that dogs are not scary monsters and she became a joy to walk.
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Julie
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30-10-2013, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
I think I read somewhere that Ben was attacked by a black Lab which is why he is like this with all black labs, it looks like it could be fear of being attacked again. With Gracie I didn't know her past but she was so practiced at her aggression to other dogs that I couldn't work out why. At that time I also walked a Greyhound and Whippet/JRT with Gracie so couldn't have a dog leaping about either, I tried to keep her in a position were she didn't react, once she was reacting her brain had shut down so nothing I did got through, by keeping her were she didn't react, and hopefully see the other dog, I was able to teach her that dogs are not scary monsters and she became a joy to walk.

It's sad really they only need one bad thing to happen and it can wipe out a hundred good interactions. They completely forget the years of good hellos and just remember the one time they were hurt.
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Gnasher
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30-10-2013, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Julie View Post
I think I am getting lost and confused in this thread you said you wanted perfection, I said I didn't look for perfection and you agreed with me
Sorry ... I meant "perfection" not perfection, if you get my drift. With a mally cross you are never going to get the level of obedience that you will see in an obedience class. By perfection, I mean a reliable recall and an eradication of the desire to flatten all BL's!
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Gnasher
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30-10-2013, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
To me it depends on what I want, I want my dogs to come back to me every time I call, I need perfection. When that loose dog had me off my scooter Bonnie and Tilly obeyed my command to leave and stay immediately, I had perfection but my dogs can also tell when I am half hearted with my commands and they are half hearted with how they obey them.

We can try to achieve perfection in what we do even though we don't get it.
I want my dogs too to come back to me every time they call, and they do! But they are not blindingly obedient with it - Ben especially likes to "clip" you, just for fun - ha ha - before he will stand still enough to have the lead put on!
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Gnasher
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30-10-2013, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
I think I read somewhere that Ben was attacked by a black Lab which is why he is like this with all black labs, it looks like it could be fear of being attacked again. With Gracie I didn't know her past but she was so practiced at her aggression to other dogs that I couldn't work out why. At that time I also walked a Greyhound and Whippet/JRT with Gracie so couldn't have a dog leaping about either, I tried to keep her in a position were she didn't react, once she was reacting her brain had shut down so nothing I did got through, by keeping her were she didn't react, and hopefully see the other dog, I was able to teach her that dogs are not scary monsters and she became a joy to walk.
He was attacked badly and several times by a bitch rottweiler at his last but one home - a very nice home where he was well looked after, but I suspect indulged too I assumed that his aggressiveness towards BL's was either connected to this, or because of it - funnily enough, the one dog that his father attacked seemingly unprovoked was the BL that goes to our local regularly. Then when we lost Hal and adopted Tai, blow me down if he didn't attack this poor dog also. And then when we got Ben, they both attacked it - or rather barked aggressively at it, until we removed our hooligans. Very, very embarrassing when the dear sweet boy was just sitting there minding his own business! He is a solid black and wears a very obvious very bright red collar - I wondered if this had anything to do with it? The dramatic contrast in colour. I have no idea, but all I do know is that ALL bl's now if they are male will definitely be flattened if we were not alert.
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Florence
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30-10-2013, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Parallel walking WILL work for Ben if it kills me! With a dog weighing 45 kilos you cannot have him lungeing at a dog that is walking past or overtaking. With most dogs Ben will parallel walk now - provided I am between him and the other dog. I tell him firmly to walk on, and leave - if he looks at the other dog - and stride swiftly and determinedly forward.
I've done parallel walking with Ella, she quickly progressed to social walks. I started off doing BAT and clicker training with her for her reactivity but had to give it up as it excites her too much, so parallel walking was our solution.
When you do parallel walking, it's good to have someone between the two dogs as a barrier, so that they get a chance to break a stare and it just creates a bit more security for them. It also allows them to get closer to the other dog without getting too intense. Obviously tiny steps will be needed. But it makes it possible for the reactive dog to get accustomed to the other dog and eventually be able to look at them and sorting their own feelings out about being close to something they're scared of.

Anyway, it might not work with all dogs but it helped us a lot, especially because clicker training is a no-go for Ella.
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