I totaly disagree that the use of the choke chain is cruel. All of my dogs have worn them 24/7 and have eagerly donned them when they have fallen off or been removed during grooming, etc. If the chain, used as I described, hurt, the dogs would certainly not accept them.

This attitude that it is cruelty is promulgated by persons of the same ilk as those who oppose corporal punishment of children - which has resulted in poor behavior of young people.

Allow me to point out that all animals that care for and train their offspring use nips and cuffs, etc., to correct their young. It is an instinctive, and therefore essential, training device. Please don't overlook the fact that we homo sapiens sapiens are animals, too!

All of my dogs have been happy, healthy, playful, loyal, and trustworthy family members. And unusually well behaved, on or off the leash.

As Mini mentioned, this thread is quite old

Wys
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I wasn't commenting on the use of the CHECK chain, as we call it but how you describe you use it. Pulling sharply upwards as you have said above has been proven to damage the dogs throat. A check chain or half check should be checked to the side of the dog avoiding the throat area. Secondly you say you FORCED your dog to walk by your side.
I stand my comments that this is antiquated, I have trained all my dogs to a high standard and it hasn't meant FORCING them to walk by side, rather training them in a kind manner what I require them to do and for them to want to be with me. I would also never dream of CHECKING a dog upwards just to get them to walk to heel, rather using my voice and direction to teach them what I want them to do.

First of all, I have said that check chains may have a purpose. Read my previous post a bit more carefully. I have said the way that you have used it is dangerous and cruel and can damage the dogs throat. FACT

Secondly you say you know how to use a CHOKE Chain, yet it has also been proven that dogs have snagged themselves on CHOKE chains and it is advises to only let the dogs wear them when they are out, not left on 24/7 or when they are left alone. FACT

Thirdly, what a stupid, sweeping comment regards Children, not to be compared and how dare you assume my thoughts on hitting children in how I train my dogs. I just choose not to HANG them off a chain when walking them. Where does a bitch do that to her young or any other animal. Humans invented the CHOKE chain not animals.

Yes your dogs are loyal, you can kick a dog half to death and it will still remain loyal. So your point is

Anyway, as Wysiwig has said, this is an OLD thread and so are your views on dog training.

I was under the impression that discussions on this forum were to avoid personal attacks. Obviously Megan57collies doesn't subscribe to that.

It amuses me when persons flatly state something as "FACT" with no substantiating references.

Here is a "FACT", however: I have NEVER "forced" my dogs to do anything! I trained my dogs to walk beside me at heel, which is the time honored position. (Note that the popular dog whisperer on TV use exactly the method and position I describred as my having used 60 some years ago!! [BFACT!!![/B])


The quick, sharp upward motion on a choke chain is not hard enough to in any way damage the dog. Ir is no more than an attention getting method that is MILDLY uncomfortable. Yanking hard enough on the chain to cause physical damage would be stupid and cruel - I like to thinik that no dog owner on this forum would be that dumb. (Although I have now been given reason to question even that!)

Does it really matter that this is an "old thread"? Heck, I am an old man, so it seems o.k. to me. If it is such an old, useless thread, I cannot help but wonder at the response it has garnered.

Our first family dogf, GSD "Devil", bought for our oldest boy when the boy was 5, was taught to walk at heel as a young pup by the method I described. He then would voluntarily do so off leash (before leash laws!) and did so with all of our kids and my wife. He also voluntarily sat down by the door of the grocery store and waited until whoever he was with returned, then voluntarilly carried the paper bag (they didn't have plastic then!) home. Does that sound forced.



Here he is: Devil. A much loved family member for almost 13 years.

I tire of the idiocy displayed on this thread, so will no longer bother with it.

LADYSMAN
The only person that got personal here was yourself when someone didn't agree with your training methods. By calling me idiotic and dumb and making sweeping statements above which I have referred to above. On a forum like this there will be differing opinion and GOD HELP anyone that differs with you eh? I have made my comments and can back up everything I said. A little search on the internet by yourself would confirm this. Instead you throw pathetic comments back at me.


You said on your post above that you never FORCED your dogs.
Can I refresh your memory on what you said on your previous post and I quote

"I have always used an ordinary choke chain. I begin with the chain held very short, forcing the dog to walk at my side.

Your own words, not mine. The clue is in the name, a CHOKE chain.

Simply type in CHOKE CHAIN DAMAGE (the clue is in the name) on any search engine and you will get plenty to read from including the damage they call when used incorrectly including

Injured ocular blood vessels
Tracheal and oesophageal damage
Severely sprained necks
Cases of fainting
Transient foreleg paralysis
Laryngeal nerve paralysis
Hind leg ataxia


Secondly, why is it that 90% of training clubs (including the three I have been involved with) have banned check chains to be used. Perhaps over in the states this has not been looked at, but over here there is a wealth of information on the effects of misused chains. I suggest you do some research before replying rather than throwing little insults at me ( I presume there at me or at all on this forum)
I can back up all my statements regards misuse of choke chains, please feel free to supply proof to the contrary.

"I tire of the idiocy displayed on this thread, so will no longer bother with it."

I agree totally agree with you, but don't put yourself down Do your research before you make sweeping statements, that could affect another member and their dogs.