When is a cross breed a pure breed?

I love the looks that the Mals and Huskies have but I know that they would be too much for our family to take on. I was chatting with a Mal breeder when Northern Inuits came up and I wondered if they may be a good choice but she said that they were cross breeds of Mals/GSDS and therefore their temprements are more unpredictable as you aren't sure which parent they will take after. I've looked into it on the net and from what I found they've been bred since the 80's. So my question is this, how long does a breed have to be bred before it's not considered a cross breed anymore as surely all dog breeds have been crossed at some point in history.

Unfortunately there are no records in the public domain with regards to the crossbreeds known as NI, UTE, British NI and several others who are similar or the same crosses.

As there are no records available it is not possible to say if these dogs are breeding true or not but if you look at the photographs available on the internet you will find that the appearance differs a good deal and normally crossbreeds cannot be called a breed until there is established breed type.

Along with the differences in type will go differences in temperament, conformation and health, so although you may buy a pup from two parents that you like both the looks and temperament of and are assured that they are healthy no one can know what may be lurking in the background because no one knows what the background is.

If breeds are carefully cross bred and the pups who do not meet the standard aimed at are never bred from eventually you are able to breed consistently a dog that will look like it’s parents, it’s siblings, it’s cousins and its ancestors will resemble it. Unfortunately if the very greatest of care is not taken when you breed by putting crossbred to crossbred all you will produces in the end are mongrels. The wider the parameters you set yourself the less likely you will be able to produce a dog that will be recognised, if a wide selection of colour, a wide acceptable size, any eye colour and any conformation is accepted then you will not be successful in producing a breed.

Thankts Pita that's really interesting. So there is no set defined time that a cross breed is recognised as a purebreed? I know what you mean about them looking different - I googled NI and the pictures that came back did very quite a lot but of course I've no way of knowing how recent or old the pics are.

as an outsider in the NI debate this is what I really can't understand.

Coming from the 'lurcher' world, I can say that although lurchers are crosses, any decent lurcherman/breeder can recite their dog's pedigree (and other people's dogs as well) for 20yrs, no problem. And these are people breeding 'fit for purpose', for their own needs and not commercially.

So I really don't understand that apparently (apart from the strays which Patch mentioned on another thread which were used initially) why subsequent pedigrees are not known and available together with any health or temperament observations.

I cannot fathom whether the true breeding records are not known, records never kept, health/temperament details are too uncomfortable to publish - or what???? But it seems that people who ask questions are labelled trouble makers. In my experience of lurcher and terrier folk anyone who showed an interest in the breeding lines of their pup would fall off their stool with boredom after 10 generations being recited and wish they had never asked!

So I'm at a loss as to know what is going on with NIs as regards pedigrees.


* pedigrees as in established 'lineage', not bits of paper.

No, no set time, it is a matter of assessing what has been achieved. It depends to some extent on what has been attempted and how much has been attempted. For instance a while ago someone set out to produce a Boxer with a naturally bobbed tail, it was successful and is now called a Bob Tail Boxer. Not a different breed but an amended one. And even then every pup in a litter does not have the bob tail.

Years ago a lot of people bred different terriers together to produce a terrier that would do the job of work they wished to be done, these breeds are recognisable to look at but some do not have sufficient type to be officially recognised by the Kennel Club or the supporters have never asked for recognition. Breeds like Jack Russell, Fell Terrier, Patterdale are known but not recognised although the Parsons Jack Russell has recently been.

More often than not breeds are adapted for a purpose, rather than an attempt made to produce a totally new breed. The one you are talking of was attempted just because someone decided that it would be nice to have a dog that looked like a wolf, no particular wolf it appears which is why, no doubt, there is not as yet any definite type of dog emerging, the idea seems to expand according to an individuals ideas or just because that is what the pups produced looked like.

I know what you mean about huskies. They are such hard work:







Seriously though - a Malamute or a Siberian Husky are very much what you make them. Our sibes are extremely laid back and very well-behaved. It really is about how much training you are prepared to put in and what boundaries you set them. Nature is important, but nurture equally so.

The wide variety within the "wolfy-looking" dog breeds says to me that they are still not breeding to type and cannot yet be considered a "breed" (although the proponents of such breeds will, of course, disagree).

Mick

Mick, that’s a strange looking Husky in the back corner of your very nice settee

Strange thing about spitz breeds if they are not eating or doing with much enthusiasm they are sleeping.

Gorgeous photos Mick! I'm not afraid of having a demanding breed, certainly dobes aren't for the faint hearted but I suppose what's put me off primarily is hearing the huge amounts of exercise mals/huskies have to do to keep them happy and that they aren't social with other dogs. At the end of the day it would have to fit in the family and be a pet.

Mick got to say I dont normally "do" reds lol but your reds are absolutely lovely and tempting me over to the red side lol.

I cant really add any comments about the actual question as I feel that the comments already made are probably the same as mine would have been.

Mo

My mals are happy to laze away on the settee or sleep in the garden.. They are also happy to run with the scooter etc..
They are what you make them..I can't honestly see how a mixture of all those breeds can make anything calmer etc that the original breeds..

Some mals don't like other dogs and some do...(same as any other dog) its all about socialisation..

My dogs don't like other dogs outside the garden they will bark thru the fence..but the minute they are on the same side of the fence they are fine..