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Moobli
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19-11-2016, 05:49 PM
Sadly very true Tawney. I think we have lived for too long without any apex predators in this country and it would take a complete change of mindset in millions of people to allow it to happen in the future.
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tawneywolf
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19-11-2016, 06:03 PM
Most are mindless morons so could do with having their minds changed for something of a more advanced nature
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chlosmum
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19-11-2016, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
Great Would I be right in thinking you have LGDs in Hungary protecting the flocks?
I live in North Eastern Hungary close to the Slovakian and Ukraine borders and most of the land is used for crops rather than livestock, so there's not much opportunity to see LGD's at work. We do have LGD's in the village though. A Kuvasz, a Puli, a Mudi and a couple of Pumi but only the Kuvasz and Puli are working dogs who live on a smallholding with a small herd of goats, pigs, rabbits a horse and poultry. Most of the Kuvasz and Komondor you see in the area are used to protect commercial property.

If you want to see LGD's used for their original purpose of guarding/herding flocks you have to go to the Great Hungarian Plains (Puszta) in the centre of Hungary. Although there are still large livestock farms sadly they're disappearing and the skills of LGD's are being lost.

We have deer, wild boar, foxes and wild cats in the woods surrounding the village and according to my neighbours wolves as well, although I've never heard any! I do know that the wolf and the lynx population are increasing. Wolves are found in the Bukk Hills, the Hortobagy Nemzeti National Park an area of 300 sq miles and in 2014 in the Zemplen Hills a few miles from where I live! Unlike the UK where man is considering re introducing lynx, in Hungary with both the wolf an the lynx it's a natural migration from neighbouring countries. Fortunately bears haven't arrived yet as they have to negotiate the Carpathian Mountains!

LGD's are my preferred type of dog since owning a Great Pyrenee in the late 70's. For some reason I find them easy to understand. When I first came to Hungary I was was tempted to buy a Kuvasz but decided they were rather too large for me. I'm now on my 2nd Shar-Pei which were originally breed as all purpose farm dogs and have many of the same traits as their larger LGD counterparts.
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Losos
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19-11-2016, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by gordon mac View Post
but when you consider that large carnivores cover vast territories - in half a night they could be in the centre of Huddersfield or Manchester.
I think Moobli is writing from the perspective of someone who lives in a truly remote part of the UK. The fact is that with the huge population explosion of the last 50 years there is no way such creatures could live anywhere in England, very few places in Wales, and only a small part of Scotland (which inlcudes where Moobli lives)

Even if there was a plan to introduce them there is still the large number of ignorant criminal classes who would enjoy going out and killing them, just as they did with one of your pidgeons.

And your joke about eating them was not so far off the mark either
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Moobli
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19-11-2016, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the insight into the use of LGDs in Hungary, chlosmum. Really interesting. I really like the look of some of the larger LGDs - Sarplaninac, Pyrenean Mountain Dog, Kuvasz, Anatolian Shepherd, Caucasian Shepherd to name a few and even though I live on a sheep farm and also own ponies, hens, cattle and alpacas it would be impossible to give them work to do because of the fear of the Dangerous Dogs Act (dogs can be reported and seized under this Draconian Act simply for making a person fear they might be bitten) and also our breed and type of sheep would not take to having dogs living among them.
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Moobli
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19-11-2016, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by Losos View Post
I think Moobli is writing from the perspective of someone who lives in a truly remote part of the UK. The fact is that with the huge population explosion of the last 50 years there is no way such creatures could live anywhere in England, very few places in Wales, and only a small part of Scotland (which inlcudes where Moobli lives)

Even if there was a plan to introduce them there is still the large number of ignorant criminal classes who would enjoy going out and killing them, just as they did with one of your pidgeons.

And your joke about eating them was not so far off the mark either
Sadly I don't think anywhere in the UK (including most of Scotland) is remote and quiet enough to sustain a wolf pack There are no real true wilderness areas in this country any more. In my area, they would be exterminated pretty quickly. I do live in a more rural situation than many people, but I am only an hour outside Edinburgh. My holiday cottage in the Highlands would be a better bet - but there are so many walkers and climbers in that area, as well as large sporting estates and sheep farms that would not welcome wolves either
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Moobli
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19-11-2016, 09:41 PM
There is a really interesting blog about the use of LGDs on a sheep farm in Canada, if anyone is interested in reading it.

http://predator-friendly-ranching.blogspot.co.uk/
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Losos
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19-11-2016, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by chlosmum View Post
Fortunately bears haven't arrived yet as they have to negotiate the Carpathian Mountains!
When we lived in Czechland I did meet one guy who had previously lived in the High Tatra mountains (Northern Slovakia) and he claimed that bears can still be found in that area (Not so far from you) Like many people he was probably exagerating
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Losos
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19-11-2016, 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
but there are so many walkers and climbers in that area, as well as large sporting estates and sheep farms that would not welcome wolves either
It is such a shame because wolves are truly magnificant creatures. How I would like to turn the clock back a few hundred years. As mentioned they bring a natural 'balance' to nature whereas all the two legged humans can do is continue the 'dominant species' theory as broadcast by the like of Zuckerberg and company
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Phil
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19-11-2016, 11:16 PM
Interesting thread.

I've half followed a few of the 're-wilding' projects here in Scotland.
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