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tawneywolf
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17-05-2016, 06:46 PM
Chinese Cresteds were originally developed to catch rats onboard ship, I know Papillons are in their background, you really need to do some proper research instead of just spouting out ill conceived and badly thought out opinions
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NickyAnn
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17-05-2016, 07:08 PM
then with the wolf as a starting point, you do not agree that a Pug is more of a mutation than a German Sheppard or Siberian Husky? Both of which are used to crossbreed in the creation of wolf dog hybrids? Could a Chinese Crested breed to a 110lb wolf and have viable offspring? I can say what I did because it is clearly true. A German Shorthair I imagine could easily breed with a wolf, as a loose shorthair pup is drawing on wolf searching techniques still viable in it's DNA. In fact people say wow watch that German or English pointer work, but no one notices the wolf do the exact same things as this is what wolves do all the time.
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Chris
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17-05-2016, 08:58 PM
You really are too hung up on wolves.

If you're a purist, then there should be no dogs as they are all 'mutations' from the original. If not, which you clearly are not as you live with dogs, then you have to accept that the degree of 'mutation' is irrelevant to the argument.

However, I don't think that this is the point you are trying to make. I agree with you in that some breeds have been ruined by selective breeding in that they have been altered so much that they cannot be healthy.

Hopefully, that is now changing (slowly).

I have what is generally accepted as a very healthy breed (Border Terrier), but there is no way she could breed with a wolf either so is health based on the ability to breed with wolves - I don't think so
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NickyAnn
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17-05-2016, 09:36 PM
It's not getting better, it's getting worse as new gene manipulation techniques arise. Note this project involving dalmations, that can't succeed, unless all of the genetically affected dogs are sterilized...

Dalmatian-Pointer Backcross Project





Dalmatian
Hyperuricemia in Dalmatians (as in all breeds) is inherited, but unlike other breeds, the "normal" gene for uricase is not present in the breed's gene pool. Therefore, there is no possibility of eliminating hyperuricemia among pure-bred Dalmatians. The only possible solution to this problem must then be crossing Dalmatians with other breeds to reintroduce the "normal" uricase gene. This led to the foundation of the Dalmatian-Pointer Backcross Project, which aims to reintroduce the normal uricase gene into the Dalmatian breed. The backcross used a single English Pointer; subsequent breedings have all been to purebred Dalmatians. This project was started in 1973 by Dr. Robert Schaible. The first cross (F1) hybrids did not resemble Dalmatians very closely. The F1s were then crossed back to purebreds. This breeding produced puppies of closer resemblance to the pure Dalmatian. By the fifth generation in 1981, they resembled purebreds so much, Dr. Schaible convinced the AKC to allow two of the hybrids to be registered as purebreds. Then AKC President William F. Stifel stated, "If there is a logical, scientific way to correct genetic health problems associated with certain breed traits and still preserve the integrity of the breed standard, it is incumbent upon the American Kennel Club to lead the way."[27] The Dalmatian Club of America's (DCA) board of directors supported this decision, however it quickly became highly controversial among the club members. A vote by DCA members opposed the registration of the hybrids, causing the AKC to ban registration to any of the dog's offspring.[28][29]

At the annual general meeting of the DCA in May 2006, the backcross issue was discussed again by club members. In June of the same year, DCA members were presented with an opportunity to vote on whether to reopen discussion of the Dalmatian Backcross Project. The results of this ballot were nearly 2:1 in favor of re-examining support of the project by the DCA. This has begun with publication of articles presenting more information both in support of and questioning the need for this project. In July 2011, the AKC agreed to allow registration of backcrossed Dalmatians.[30]

In 2010, the UK Kennel Club registered a backcrossed Dalmatian called Ch. Fiacre’s First and Foremost. Several restrictions were imposed on the dog. Although the dog is at least 13 generations removed from the original Pointer cross, its F1 to F3 progeny will be marked on registration certificates with asterisks (which "indicate impure or unverified breeding",[31]) no progeny will be eligible to be exported as pedigrees for the next five years, and all have to be health tested.[32] UK Dalmatian breed clubs have objected to the decision by the Kennel Club.[33]

The Dalmatian Heritage Project

The Dalmatian Heritage Project began in 2005. The goal of the project is to preserve and improve the Dalmatian breed by breeding parent dogs with the following traits:
Normal urinary metabolism
Bilateral hearing
Friendly and confident

All puppies in the Heritage Project are descendants of Dr. Robert Schaible's parent line. Today, "Dr. Schaible’s line produces the only Dalmatians in the world today that are free of a metabolic defect that can lead to urinary tract problems."[

Sorry doc, all you have done is create another dog line.
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Crysania
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21-05-2016, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
Nicky Ann...... sorry to say but you are talking the biggest load of nonsense I have heard in a long time.


You don`t get blind or deaf wolves??? ermmm how do you know, do you follow every wild pack of wolves around to see how many pups survive ??

Only show dogs get health issues .............

You put the ill health of the whole canine population on the show breeder

God knows where you have dredged up all this nonsense
Blind or deaf wolves get killed in the wild. They are no doubt either killed by the mother when born or left to die if something happens as they get older. Nature is NOT kind to disability.

Wolves in the wild have a lifespan of 6-8 years. Nature is tough. Many don't live long enough to develop things like cancer and the like. And if they do, they simply die without us ever knowing what they died from.
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NickyAnn
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21-05-2016, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
Blind or deaf wolves get killed in the wild. They are no doubt either killed by the mother when born or left to die if something happens as they get older. Nature is NOT kind to disability.

Wolves in the wild have a lifespan of 6-8 years. Nature is tough. Many don't live long enough to develop things like cancer and the like. And if they do, they simply die without us ever knowing what they died from.
Agreed blind or deaf wolves get killed in the wild before they can breed. However fully ignorant and possibly mentally ill humans breed these dogs, because they have the right spot pattern. Now you know the problem.
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NickyAnn
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26-05-2016, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by tawneywolf View Post
Chinese Cresteds were originally developed to catch rats onboard ship, I know Papillons are in their background, you really need to do some proper research instead of just spouting out ill conceived and badly thought out opinions
Must have been some pretty small rats on them ships. Do you believe everything you read? Chinese Cresteds run away from rats and everything else.

However the ship story is nonsense as. In the 1920ís, two breeders named Ida Groves and Deborah Woods founded the Crest Haven Kennel. All Chinese Crested dogs come from there. My guess is that they took the smaller Xolos and bred them to the Maltese and other puffy breeds of dog. Itís kind of funny, though, because the Rothschild Zoological Museum seems to think that there is something to the African and Chinese origins of these dogs. My guess is they were fooled by some dog dealer.

Bye the way, the rat killer was already very much invented when Chinese Cresteds were mutated from other dogs. The best rat killer ever is a cat.
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worldofdogs
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17-05-2017, 09:04 AM
What's the difference between a pedigree dog or a crossbreed/mongrel dog other than the AKC or KC papers?
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Bulldogs4Life
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20-05-2017, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by worldofdogs View Post
What's the difference between a pedigree dog or a crossbreed/mongrel dog other than the AKC or KC papers?
A pedigree dog has a pedigree, so they have a known family history. A cross breed can have a pedigree as well, so if you're asking pure bred vs cross bree. The pure bred comes from a smaller / closed gene pool. They are also selectively bred for specific traits over generations.

A cross or mix typically comes from a genetically diverse background and phenotype can vary greatly.
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