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TheABCs
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16-02-2011, 04:55 PM
Presume that's the post that doesn't seem to refer to anyone in particular...? Perhaps you'd like to answer the questions in the quote you put in your recent post replying to mine though.
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 04:57 PM
To answer your question re the lurcher; nope never owned one. Any dog can be trained with positive methods though. But i didn't say i was against the rattle bottle i don't like them and won't use one but if it worked for you then thats fine. If as a trainer i had helped an owner overcome their dogs issues then i would expect the owner to continue the training throughout the dogs life.
I have however used other sound aversion techniques
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Off out shortly so if i don't reply tis cos im not online
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TheABCs
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16-02-2011, 05:05 PM
Glad to see that you aren't against what are termed aversives like rattle bottles, you're not such a R+ evangelist as your posts seemed to imnply - sometimes posting on threads is like that. To actually put forward a statement ssaying that "any dog can be trained by positive methods" though is an argument that people with a philosophical bent could argue over for ever. How do you know that ANY dog can? Define positive and negative? Is ignoring a behaviour a form of punishment? Would sound aversion be as severe for a very hearing sensitive dog as say a prong collar to a dog with a lower pain threshhold such as a fighting breed? And so it goes on...
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Premack?

Does your dog have any sound sensitivity issues?
see twas Tassle
also (i have 5 mins spare lol) as with any "dangerous behaviour" i always state to the owner at the very beginning that sometimes the best we can hope for is good management, you may get to a point where you can let him off lead near/sheep cars etc.. but you must always be vigilant, as the instinct may always be lying under the surface.
Can you explain a little more as to what was said on the other forum/ sounds awful.. but was it the trainers fault, the owners fault or just a horrid accident?
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sarah1983
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16-02-2011, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Dawes Paws View Post
Hi Sarah i see you are local to me. Im currently working with some car chasers using positive methods.
Apologies if i shouldn't be doing this on here. Pm me Sarah if you wish i
I'm actually in Northern Ireland now, just forgotten to change my location. I would like to know how you're dealing with the car chasers though. All the positive methods I've found rely on you being able to find something more rewarding to the dog and quite frankly, that doesn't exist for Rupert. At the moment I'm trying the Control Unleashed stuff and we'll see whether that works. I know people have had excellent results with it when it comes to other triggers and it can't hurt even if it doesn't help.

An ecollar is a last resort to be honest. I just don't want to get to the point where he has no freedom at all because of his sheep chasing tendencies.
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Premack?

Does your dog have any sound sensitivity issues?
Originally Posted by TheABCs View Post
Glad to see that you aren't against what are termed aversives like rattle bottles, you're not such a R+ evangelist as your posts seemed to imnply - sometimes posting on threads is like that. To actually put forward a statement ssaying that "any dog can be trained by positive methods" though is an argument that people with a philosophical bent could argue over for ever. How do you know that ANY dog can? Define positive and negative? Is ignoring a behaviour a form of punishment? Would sound aversion be as sever for a very hearing sensitive dog as say a prong collar to a dog with a lower pain threshhold such as a fighting breed? And so it goes on...
argh1 lol, like this post but do NOT have time to reply lol, will do my best later.
Though i do think ANY dog can be trained with R+ methods and i dont think theres a trainer in the world who ONLY usese 100% positive, sometimes a dog will do something that is just not acceptable, so we need to get "mean" lol
BUT for basic training i.e sit/down recall etc.. (which is originally what this thread was about ) i ONLY use positive, theres no point in using aversives
hope that answers for now....
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TheABCs
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16-02-2011, 05:10 PM
I believe that the owner's dog chased vehicles. Rather than apply an aversive, she took advice on how to apply positive training techniques, and unfortunately it didn't work. Her dog got killed. Can't remember where I read it, but I remember thinking how awful it must have been for her, as she sounded quite distressed. I'm not saying that an aversive would have worked, but just wondered if you would feel responsible if you offered training for this, and it didn't prevent this happening.
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Dawes Paws
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16-02-2011, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
I'm actually in Northern Ireland now, just forgotten to change my location. I would like to know how you're dealing with the car chasers though. All the positive methods I've found rely on you being able to find something more rewarding to the dog and quite frankly, that doesn't exist for Rupert. At the moment I'm trying the Control Unleashed stuff and we'll see whether that works. I know people have had excellent results with it when it comes to other triggers and it can't hurt even if it doesn't help.

An ecollar is a last resort to be honest. I just don't want to get to the point where he has no freedom at all because of his sheep chasing tendencies.
will pm you later, they are both still a work in progress, one who is nearly ready for off lead in enclosed space, the other, well shes only had one session so cant comment yet lol
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TheABCs
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16-02-2011, 05:11 PM
Glad you liked the post!
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