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wilbar
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23-03-2011, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Every action a dog (or human) makes benefits them in some way - or it wouldn`t be made. It might ease the pain to do it, or it might bring good feelings, or it might give riches beyond belief.
The more important question for me is - what does it do to the person stimulating this behaviour?
If you can stomach hurting or frightening a small animal into compliance....... what does that do to your soul?
(people who aren`t into all that airy fairy cr*p please substitute nature or character for soul. ta
As someone "into" science, I can happily live with "soul" Your meaning is clear enough & I quite agree.
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dogdragoness
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24-03-2011, 02:04 AM
Frightening a small animal into compliance with e collars strapped to their genitals to get a sit is nothing more then a bully.
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Chris
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24-03-2011, 10:14 PM
I believe there are very, very few altruistic behaviours carried out, but there are certainly some.

I'll give an example:

When we had two dogs, one was brain damaged and it was one heck of a task to house train her, especially in respect of letting us know when she wanted to go. My other dog one day went to the back door and barked (his usual signal for toileting). However, when I opened the door, he returned to the living room. Jade trotted out to the garden and toileted. It didn't register that she had gone to toilet, what did was that my boy had barked and not wanted to go. However, later that day, he did the same thing. It was then, and only then that I made the connection.

So, the first time it happened, far from being rewarded for his act, all my dog got was a huge sigh in return, but he still repeated the behaviour. There was no obvious sign of reward from my girl who obviously benefited from the act, but, of course, there may have been something subtle that was missed.

A true act of altruism? I like to think so
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Dawes Paws
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24-03-2011, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
I believe there are very, very few altruistic behaviours carried out, but there are certainly some.

I'll give an example:

When we had two dogs, one was brain damaged and it was one heck of a task to house train her, especially in respect of letting us know when she wanted to go. My other dog one day went to the back door and barked (his usual signal for toileting). However, when I opened the door, he returned to the living room. Jade trotted out to the garden and toileted. It didn't register that she had gone to toilet, what did was that my boy had barked and not wanted to go. However, later that day, he did the same thing. It was then, and only then that I made the connection.

So, the first time it happened, far from being rewarded for his act, all my dog got was a huge sigh in return, but he still repeated the behaviour. There was no obvious sign of reward from my girl who obviously benefited from the act, but, of course, there may have been something subtle that was missed.

A true act of altruism? I like to think so
amazing!! and yes would agree, true altruism
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rune
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24-03-2011, 11:12 PM
Funnily Celt did something today that he has never done and no other dog I have ever had has done anything similar----having said that it is possibly one of the few times another of my dogs has been in the same sort of situation (barring my JRT who often did it!).

Etta got over a cornish hedge and brambles and into a stock fenced field with three strands of barbed wire---so then she was stuck. Celt was with me and I headed back towards the car to look for an exit, he came with me then Etta's bark changed to her panic one----he left me and went back to where she was then came back a little way and went back to mark where she was again. No way was he prepared to leave her.

She somehow scrambled back over but I was amazed at Celt----he obviously thought I couldn't hear her---he may have thought I was going to go off without her.

And I didn't think he could think at all!!

That is kind of altruistic----or maybe its the collie thing----but none of my others have ever done it. Perhaps he thinks of her as a lamb?

rune
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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24-03-2011, 11:20 PM
Mia actually lets me know when Ben needs out
His signal is to sit by the door - sometimes I dont notice so she will come and mimic his sit but right out in the middle of the room where I can see her

Also I remember one time when Ben was little and I was out with my friends and their 3 collies

Ben had no interest in playing with the ball but the collies were obsessed
He was also v scared of this dranage ditch - that the collies were leaping and climbing down

2 balls got lost in the ditch, for some reason the collies wouldnt get them, one was a couple of feet down and the other was in the bottom

We kept asking the collies to get the balls, they would run past them but not pick them up

Ben was stood on the edge watching the other dogs run past them and he was wimpering

Then he just slowly slid down and got the first ball - sliding and crying all the way
Climbed back up and dropped the ball
Turned round and carefully slid all the way down, crying all the way
Picked up the ball, climbed up and gave it to me

We cheered and he was so waggy and pleased with himself

so I guess you couldnt say it was altruistic because he was proud of himself

but it was pretty good!
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dogdragoness
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25-03-2011, 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Dawes Paws View Post
amazing!! and yes would agree, true altruism
I agree! I think that he was trying to please you perhaps or also some dogs are natural born service dogs lol. Was it the brain damaged one who asked for the other dog or was it the normal dog who.asked for the brain damaged dog?
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Chris
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25-03-2011, 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
I agree! I think that he was trying to please you perhaps or also some dogs are natural born service dogs lol. Was it the brain damaged one who asked for the other dog or was it the normal dog who.asked for the brain damaged dog?
Sorry, I didn't make it clear. It was my normal collie Sam who asked for Jade (my brain damaged, mix and match girlie) to go out. They weren't lovey dovey together, more tolerated each other, but he did look after her without any prompting from us and many times without any acknowledgement of his acts as they weren't realised until after the event. Perhaps a natural 'service dog' as you say

Bless him, he needs looking after himself now. He's 15 and is truly a dog in a million.
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ClaireandDaisy
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25-03-2011, 07:51 AM
I think dogs do look out for each other. It is probably a `we are stronger together` thing.
Daisy realises I am a most inferior dog where senses are concerned and does the face-pointy thing when I`m calling Shamus. She seems a little puzzled that I can`t scent him.
And when Bran got himself wedged in a hole in the garden, she came and showed me where he was.
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dogdragoness
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25-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Its even cooler when they look out for their humans too, Izze has never been very interested in others besides me. Before OH, it was always just her & me. One day when OH was feeding the cows before we got the feeders we had to go in & pour it on the ground. We hadn't gotten a feed delivery in a while, OH was pouring the bags of range cubes in was feeding the separated steer. All of the sudden I heard all this comotion, Izze made it around the corner before I could & drove the cows, which had pushed into OH & caused him to fall, thus spilling the range cubes & causing a feeding frenzy. Because of Izze he only was stepped on once. The breath was knocked out of him & she kept the cows away (since he was laying in the food) until he was able to get up & out.

Writing about it it doesn't seem that spectacular, guess you had to be there
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