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Adam P
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08-11-2010, 02:55 PM
He was much worse before hand, but I didn't film any of that.

When I first got him he would attack other dogs and people, also rescource guard.

I agree he is a bit submissive in the vids but considering what had happened to him over the past few weeks (e;g going from one type of behaviour to another) he was doing great.

Btw he no longer wears an e collar and is super chilled.

He's called Jacca not Jack. With regards to his body language in the vids, Whe I give the release command he waits to launch (playfully) at the other dog if he comes towards him. When Harvey (bc) gets out of the water I call him to help show him to move awya froma dog and not crowd it. Considering his past I wanted him to get into the habit of moving away from someone coming into his space, once again this is a big change for a dog who has always chased threats away.

Adam
Meg
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08-11-2010, 03:07 PM
Adam I note you have three videos..
..look at this one also Jack I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDl5e..._order&list=UL

look at the dogs body language, the set of the tail, the expression ,the body posture , it all spells fear and uncertainty to me . I have seen it before on dogs who have been subject to e collars they are wary all the time
When a normal happy dog is walking its whole body is 'animated'. I don't think you did this dog any favours rescuing it, what a miserable existence for a little terrier living in fear all the time . Presumably this poor little dog is the one you were eager to demonstrate your 'skills' on (see post 25)to anyone prepared to watch

ETA I'm off to walk my dog before I say something I shouldn't!
Adam P
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08-11-2010, 03:20 PM
They're all of Jacca (he's in the one about e collars too).

He is highly ball orientated and I use a squeaky ball as a reinforcer. When he thinks about the ball he goes into stalking behaviour (maybe he's got collie in him) which is why his body language is like that. He slinks around as soon as you show him a ball ect as he is in drive straight away (he rocks at aglity). Because I use the ball as the reinforcer for all the training when doing commands he tends to be very slinky as he anticaptes being in drive after the ball.

I agree it doesn't look as nice as tail wagging ect but he's in a far higher excited state than with food.

Btw the demo was justto meet up chat with the dogs ect. Mine don't wear e collars anymore (as evidenced by Harvey and jrt Finn in the vid).

Ayway will stop replyig now as I'm only interested in genuine interest.

Adam
SLB
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08-11-2010, 03:55 PM
Oh my word - that poor dog is scared sh*tless..when theres that click is that you pressing the remote - if it is - even I know you're over using it.

Do you actually, honestly, from the bottom of your heart, think your dog is happy throughout the whole heelwork of that?

I watched one of Mishflynn's training videos on heelwork for help with Louie and look at how happy her dog is to stay by her side compared to Jacca who darent put a foot wrong:

I hope Mishflynn doesnt mind me using this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-VEJniwXr4

And thats just using food - why would you need an E-collar to do heelwork when a piece of chicken and a squeaky voice works brilliantly?

And in the first video you posted, you said something about not being sure if it would work - Anyone watching that video would think twice. And Minihaha is right, nipping and chasing is playing - Louie is constantly nipping and chasing Sadie and vice versa and Benjie will join in but with his dog aggression issues he will get a bit more into it and he has to be told no and thats enough to do it - we've trained him that by everytime he misbehaves he goes on the lead and once he's calm again he is let back off - we havent needed a e-collar, just common sense.

Have you never heard the saying TLC - that works for fear reactive and dog/people aggressive dogs. Also have you heard that if you treat a dog with kindness you get kindness back - your dog one day is going to snap and that shock collar wont work for you anymore and he'll end up being PTS - there's only so much a dog can take - like a human, if you havent already, you'll have broken his spirit and for him to be looking like that it looks like you have already, he looks as if he has no interest in being a dog at all...poor mite And the even sadder part is - you dont even seem to care.

I hope we do follow Wales and get the e-collar banned, it's just marketed, legal abuse.
Lucky Star
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08-11-2010, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Adam I note you have three videos..
..look at this one also Jack I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDl5e25oKpk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

look at the dogs body language, the set of the tail, the expression ,the body posture , it all spells fear and uncertainty to me . I have seen it before on dogs who have been subject to e collars they are wary all the time
When a normal happy dog is walking its whole body is 'animated'. I don't think you did this dog any favours rescuing it, what a miserable existence for a little terrier living in fear all the time . Presumably this poor little dog is the one you were eager to demonstrate your 'skills' on (see post 25)to anyone prepared to watch

ETA I'm off to walk my dog before I say something I shouldn't!
Oh the poor little lad, that was unpleasant to watch. I understand what you mean when you say animated. Was he being 'shocked'? Why?
Krusewalker
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08-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
....why are peeps encouraging/indulging ap??
Because 'peeps' are engaging in discussion on a discussion forum??
I dont like AP's views either, but he has alwasy followed the rules and remained civil.
Which, i wonder, is what really riles people??

with the best respects, its no one's place to say SLB isnt allowed to open threads for discussions if they are within dogsey rules, regardless or not if they have been discussed times before.

in the vein, surely we should quit going on about Northern innuits, fireworks, idiots on walks, etc, etc??

Besides which, if posting on an ecollar thread means one is keeping the thread going and therefore 'feeding' Adam (my phrase), havent you done the same by posting then?
Krusewalker
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08-11-2010, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Adam, do you have any videos of the e-collar working in the situations you describe, your clients I mean.
Very very very good question
Adam P
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08-11-2010, 04:40 PM
The clicking is the camera!
Jackie
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08-11-2010, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by Delos View Post
ISee I would still dispute that statement as I see just as many women on other forums promoting their use. Everyones entitled to an opinion but to tar one proportion of society with the same brush because of a few statements on discussion forums as well as being silly cheapens any argument you put across.

If I said all Staffie owners were thugs and criminals, because that was my personal experience (i'm not by the way) I would quite likely be leaped on for that silly comment. So saying it's men who are the instigators and promoters of e-collars is just as silly and should be greeted with similar derision.
I am not heaping ALL men into one category, I said, it always seems to be men, who promote the use of the e.collar, from what I see.

I could also say, it seems to always be men, who are involved in dog fighting/criminal activities ... from what you see on TV or in the news....that does not mean, I think all men who own staffers are thugs/criminals or involved in dog fighting!!

Some elements are , some are not, the same goes for the e.colllar, many men feel the same as many woman, horrified at the thought of what they entail.

But seeing as I dont go on to many forums, and the few I do where the e.collar crops up, its usually men who are pro the device.

So from what I see it is a valid opinion..

I do not think men lack empathy , some "people" do , regardless of sex!
Meg
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08-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
They're all of Jacca (he's in the one about e collars too).

He is highly ball orientated and I use a squeaky ball as a reinforcer. When he thinks about the ball he goes into stalking behaviour (maybe he's got collie in him) which is why his body language is like that. He slinks around as soon as you show him a ball ect as he is in drive straight away (he rocks at aglity). Because I use the ball as the reinforcer for all the training when doing commands he tends to be very slinky as he anticaptes being in drive after the ball.

I agree it doesn't look as nice as tail wagging ect but he's in a far higher excited state than with food.

Btw the demo was justto meet up chat with the dogs ect. Mine don't wear e collars anymore (as evidenced by Harvey and jrt Finn in the vid).
Ayway will stop replyig now as I'm only interested in genuine interest.

Adam
So Adam are you saying all the time the little dog is 'slinking' on the lead it is thinking about playing with a ball ?
My dog is also very ball orientated, she has a high prey drive and will stalk birds in the garden or anything which moves.
However she does not slink along with her tail down when she is walking on the lead, she is alert and animated even more so if a ball appears . Incidentally it is normal behaviour for terrier to adopt a stalking pose when there is 'prey' around , it doesn't mean they have collie in them.

Adam considering you are supposed to be a 'dog trainer' I think you show a distinct lack of understanding canine behaviour.
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