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Jackie
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08-11-2010, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Delos View Post
As a man I take offense to that comment. I have seen plenty of women on both UK and US websites promoting the use of these barbaric devices. I really don't see how you can make such a judgmental statement like that. I judge people by their actions not their Sex. It's a bit like saying all women Nag men. Another silly statement.

People who use them ar normally those without the patience to do proper training and want the results immediately no matter the long term problems.
Sorry to offend, but sadly it IS men who on this and other forums are usually the ones advocating the use of these collars.

I agree not all men, or woman, will fit into one pigeon hole or another's.

But the judgmental statement is based on what we see here and other forums, and the majority of those who sell/use/advocate this device will be men!

P.S... we also have men here, who are against them too!
Jackie
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08-11-2010, 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Btw I'm willing to answer any (genuine) questions and give advice. I'm also willing to meet up and demo my own dogs if people are interested.

Adam
Says it all really

Poor dogs, being used to stroke someones ego
Delos
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08-11-2010, 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I prefer the more reliable results of an e collar and the less time it takes,
So your just after the quick fix.

This rubbish about low levels just being distractracting and not painful is just that rubbish. Get an e collar put it on a low level and hold it on your hand and you will realise it feels like needles going into your skin. Also a dog getting a shock like this and no knowing where it's coming from is more likely to cause more problems.

Adam I find it weird reading your evangelical posts on e collars you keep saying it's only one method you use and rarely. The thing is I never see you promoting other methods of training anywhere on any forum. So if you use it rarely why do you mention it as an answer to all problems?

I don't expect answers from you as you always avoid peoples direct questions.

It's interesting that I can't find any trace of Adam Palmer dog trainer in Devon. So i'm assuming that's not your real name. If you aren't embarrassed and stand by your methods why do you not give out your real name so you can promote your business?
Delos
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08-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
I have a theory about this - lack of empathy is a largely male characteristic* (most men don`t have it to a noticeable degree before someone complains). Extreme lack of empathy can lead to all sorts of personality disorders.
You see - basically I couldn`t deliberately inflict pain on an animal because I know how it would hurt. So the idea of debating the ethics of hurting animals is a flawed concept from the beginning.
If you substitute Beating or Burning or Kicking for Shocking you`ll see what I mean.
e.g. If I only beat my dog a little it doesn`t hurt. err........
[/url]
I was more offended by this comment more than yours Jack as it implies that all men will happily inflict pain because they have no empathy. Maybe it wasn't meant in that way but that's how it reads.
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
But the judgmental statement is based on what we see here and other forums, and the majority of those who sell/use/advocate this device will be men!
See I would still dispute that statement as I see just as many women on other forums promoting their use. Everyones entitled to an opinion but to tar one proportion of society with the same brush because of a few statements on discussion forums as well as being silly cheapens any argument you put across.

If I said all Staffie owners were thugs and criminals, because that was my personal experience (i'm not by the way) I would quite likely be leaped on for that silly comment. So saying it's men who are the instigators and promoters of e-collars is just as silly and should be greeted with similar derision.
Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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08-11-2010, 01:14 PM
I hve already said how much I hate e collars so I wont get into a flame war with adam
Im not a fan of vibrating collars either - evedn for a deaf dog, the reason being batterys can run out then how do you get your dogs attention
Better to teach your dog to keep checking in with you incase you are about to do something fun
ClaireandDaisy
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08-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Delos View Post
I was more offended by this comment more than yours Jack as it implies that all men will happily inflict pain because they have no empathy. Maybe it wasn't meant in that way but that's how it reads.

See I would still dispute that statement as I see just as many women on other forums promoting their use. Everyones entitled to an opinion but to tar one proportion of society with the same brush because of a few statements on discussion forums as well as being silly cheapens any argument you put across.

If I said all Staffie owners were thugs and criminals, because that was my personal experience (i'm not by the way) I would quite likely be leaped on for that silly comment. So saying it's men who are the instigators and promoters of e-collars is just as silly and should be greeted with similar derision.
ok
so how do you feel about e-collars?
Adam P
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08-11-2010, 01:58 PM
BorderDawn

I don't have vids of clients dogs (I'm no good at technology as evidenced by my lack of internet presence).
I do have a vid of my own dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj7JzhS02Rg

At the time I'd had him a few weeks after rescuing him from being pts for aggression!

Slb

A recent example.
3 yr old rescue dog, fear aggressive to other dogs (would bite to drive away). Owners thinking of sending it back ect.

Did some work on recall with an e collar then intro other dogs (mine) as long as the dog wasn't displaying aggression I had the owners praise and food reward their dog, if he was aggressive they called him, moved away and I enforced the call with the collar. This only had to be done two or three times!
After a few sessions he was off lead in a public park and actually wanted to make friends with other dogs!

Adam
Tupacs2legs
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08-11-2010, 02:01 PM
..you really use the pts for aggression card lots dont you lol.
Meg
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08-11-2010, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj7JzhS02Rg
Poor little dog, Adam Jack looks throughly confused and miserable. I notice at the 17 second point in the video when you tell him he can go he doesn't move...
...you say 'he sometimes chases and nips' , on the video when the Collie gets out of the water at 1.13 seconds on the video Jack is just watching him you say 'come' and Jack wheels around cowering slightly, is this where you have given him an electric shock and if so why, he was doing nothing much at the time.

I don't call one dog chasing another and occasionally nipping 'aggression' it is normal dog play, my dog won't go in the water but she waits on the bank for my son's Springer to get out and will grab him when he does, its called playing! Adam I would't let you within a hundred miles of any dog of mine , I don't think you have got a clue about training dogs only filling them with fear and confusion
Borderdawn
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08-11-2010, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
BorderDawn

I don't have vids of clients dogs (I'm no good at technology as evidenced by my lack of internet presence).
I do have a vid of my own dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj7JzhS02Rg

At the time I'd had him a few weeks after rescuing him from being pts for aggression!

Slb

A recent example.
3 yr old rescue dog, fear aggressive to other dogs (would bite to drive away). Owners thinking of sending it back ect.

Did some work on recall with an e collar then intro other dogs (mine) as long as the dog wasn't displaying aggression I had the owners praise and food reward their dog, if he was aggressive they called him, moved away and I enforced the call with the collar. This only had to be done two or three times!
After a few sessions he was off lead in a public park and actually wanted to make friends with other dogs!

Adam
Thanks.

I could see what you were trying to achieve, but personally I dont think the dog appeared to be a candidate for being PTS from looking at him there, if he was, then Id have to think he was VERY scared. In one of the other vids of yours, the same dog looks terrified Adam, just doing heelwork. Can you appreciate the feelings others will have about the collars when such things are seen?

I do know of a dog that was "saved" if you like with the use of such a collar, a sheep killer, he also killed several cats and a dog!
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