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zoe1969
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Location: North Wales
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07-11-2010, 03:34 PM
I have never used an e-collar and never will. All my dogs except Otis are "difficult" dogs that no one has wanted or have behavioural problems. In fact, the rescue I got my 2 lurchers from said that they were the most difficult dogs they've had to place. Jenny had 3 homes before us as she was so difficult...yet we have got them all to a place where they are happy and content....WITHOUT the need for an e-collar! They are by no means perfect at all and they still have some issues but we deal with that and take them into account when out and about.
Noushka05
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07-11-2010, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
There are degrees of empathy as well-----some people will choose only to empathise with their dog and not other animals, we have seen this often in other threads.

rune
so true i see it all the time ...


and i too believe people who advocate these devices are lacking in empathy because if they could put themselves in the place of the dogs then they surely wouldnt use them!
Krusewalker
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07-11-2010, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Denis---on a u tube vid.

rune
ah, i should have guessed really
Krusewalker
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07-11-2010, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
I have a theory about this - lack of empathy is a largely male characteristic*
yeh right.

you obviously aint been taking notice of *some* of the threads on dogsey then, a forum with a mainly female membership
Adam P
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07-11-2010, 09:56 PM
As you know I use them, pretty extemsivel;y atm as well!

My methods are a combination of variouse trainers, basically I use the low level approach were you use the collar at the level the dog only just feels it. This means if the dog jumps ect its too high! At low level the dogs reaction to the collar is simply looking around.
Obviously this level will vary depending on distractions.

I prefer a balanced approach using a combination of rewards as well as the collar. This allows you to work the dog in drive and maximise performance.

Mostly I use the collar for off lead control (all breeds) and aggression issues, this is my main client base anyway.

I prefer the more reliable results of an e collar and the less time it takes, after all its all very well taking 6 months to sort something out but 6 months of still being fear aggressive or restricted exercise isn't very pleasent for the dog.

Interestingly using a vibrate collar is something that is becoming more popular, even with e collar trainers. Most of the collars will have a vibrate or tone option anyway and for years people have used this as a recall signal or as warning (leave command). However a few trainers have begun to utilise the vibrate as a major part of training.
http://diamondbarkennel.tripod.com/turnpager.htm
She also does lots of videos!

Interestingly some e collar trainers are very anti pager and tone training because they are none adjustable, I have met some dogs who find the tone highly aversive and the same with the pager. If your seriously into the pager some people recomend these collars.
http://www.k9electronics.com/product...rainerGT1.aspx
Because its adjustable.

I personanly got into e collars a few years back after using normal training methods (including modern reward based) for years both as a hobby and business.
Since starting I have found them to be humane and effective, I have also found it tends to level the playing field in terms of resolving big issues. A must considering the types of case I deal with (pts threats) on occasions.

Btw I'm willing to answer any (genuine) questions and give advice. I'm also willing to meet up and demo my own dogs if people are interested.

Adam
Lucky Star
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07-11-2010, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
The topic of e collars has been discussed at length in previous thread , personally I can think of no reason why anyone would wish to use one.

For me their name has become synonymous with a number of very odd salesmen who frequent dog sites using a variety of identities one of whom used to demonstrate the use of these devices by strapping it near to his dogs genitals .
Now I only have to hear the name 'e collar' and it conjures up a vision of weired people and makes me shudder ..... yuk!
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
This was one of the last big discussions about e collars..
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=122533

In post 384 I ask what the person in the photograph was doing with the e collar (this is just a few of a series of photographs which used to be widely posted on internet sites by an e collar salesman)
...the reply from an e collar user ..see post 387
I missed this thread but that is just awful! What sort of sick saddo would do that to a dog, to teach 'sit'?


Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
As you know I use them, pretty extemsivel;y atm as well!

My methods are a combination of variouse trainers, basically I use the low level approach were you use the collar at the level the dog only just feels it. This means if the dog jumps ect its too high! At low level the dogs reaction to the collar is simply looking around.
Obviously this level will vary depending on distractions.

I prefer a balanced approach using a combination of rewards as well as the collar. This allows you to work the dog in drive and maximise performance.

Mostly I use the collar for off lead control (all breeds) and aggression issues, this is my main client base anyway.

I prefer the more reliable results of an e collar and the less time it takes, after all its all very well taking 6 months to sort something out but 6 months of still being fear aggressive or restricted exercise isn't very pleasent for the dog.

Interestingly using a vibrate collar is something that is becoming more popular, even with e collar trainers. Most of the collars will have a vibrate or tone option anyway and for years people have used this as a recall signal or as warning (leave command). However a few trainers have begun to utilise the vibrate as a major part of training.
http://diamondbarkennel.tripod.com/turnpager.htm
She also does lots of videos!

Interestingly some e collar trainers are very anti pager and tone training because they are none adjustable, I have met some dogs who find the tone highly aversive and the same with the pager. If your seriously into the pager some people recomend these collars.
http://www.k9electronics.com/product/9606900101/UnleashedTechnologyGentleTrainerGT1.aspx
Because its adjustable.

I personanly got into e collars a few years back after using normal training methods (including modern reward based) for years both as a hobby and business.
Since starting I have found them to be humane and effective, I have also found it tends to level the playing field in terms of resolving big issues. A must considering the types of case I deal with (pts threats) on occasions.

Btw I'm willing to answer any (genuine) questions and give advice. I'm also willing to meet up and demo my own dogs if people are interested.

Adam
I wouldn't take you up on your offer and be the cause of your dogs being subjected to 'stims' from an e collar for show purposes, thanks.
Tupacs2legs
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07-11-2010, 10:43 PM
im also willing to meet up and demo my own dogs if people are interested.
Adam[/QUOTE]

disgusting!
Meg
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07-11-2010, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Btw I'm willing to answer any (genuine) questions and give advice. I'm also willing to meet up and demo my own dogs if people are interested.

Adam
Poor dogs

I will pass thanks Adam, I am not in to causing animals pain and discomfort .

Some people just don't deserve to own dogs
Murf
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07-11-2010, 11:00 PM
why would anyone put a dog through that pain ..and pain is the word ...place a 9v battery on your tongue and see how long you can hold it ...
Tassle
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07-11-2010, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post

Btw I'm willing to answer any (genuine) questions and give advice. I'm also willing to meet up and demo my own dogs if people are interested.

Adam
You are willing to put your dogs through unnecessary aversive training for demo purposes?

I guess that says it all.
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