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View Poll Results: Which CM methods do you use on your dog?
Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise? 26 68.42%
Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs? 7 18.42%
Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention? 1 2.63%
Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction? 0 0%
Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention 1 2.63%
Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction 1 2.63%
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention 0 0%
Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction 0 0%
Do you use prong collars 0 0%
Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar 0 0%
Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear 0 0%
Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor 1 2.63%
Have you ever pinned your dog to the fllor for any reason other than aggression 1 2.63%
Do you alpha roll your dog? 0 0%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Mahooli
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02-10-2009, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Becky, could you please, pretty please, try not to turn this thread into yet another boring rant against CM. The thread topic is about which bits of CM training do you agree with. If your answer is "nothing", then please could you just not bother to post? Banging on about how appallingly he treats dogs, and how heavily edited his programmes are is absolutely nothing to do with the title of this thread!

None of us, even those who like CM, agree with absolutely everything he does. But even you must admit his advocacy of exercise and plenty of it is A1?
It's not a boring rant it is a call for action against dog abuse, I can't help it if you can't see it and my reply was in response to someone who said what we have against the gut. A lot he is cruel.
Whilst I agree that dogs should have adequate exercise CM's programmes do not show this only the fact that you have to dominate a dog to be able to control it and he uses abusive and brutal and cruel methods to achieve this.
CM, however, is not the 'founder' of exercising your dog. There is also a danger of saying lots of exercise, this can be misused and be dangerous to dogs, particularly young and growing ones. What a lot of people also forget is the more exercise you give a dog the fitter it gets and the more exercise you have to give it. Hence dogs should have a combination of both physical and mental stimulation to tire themselves out. Just giving a dog more and more physical exercise will be self defeating.
Becky
scarter
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02-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
But most of what you have just described is NOT exclusive to CM... consistency and patience is the essence of all training methods/
I think that's the point the opening poster is trying to make.

Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
the only bit that confuses me, is you use of tsst or oi, to get a "sit" if you use those sounds for other commands, who does the dog know what you want.

I agree the word or sound you make to train a wanted behaviour is irrelevant, but surely it needs to be exclusive to the command you want.

No point in shouting down when you want a wait!!
I'm not trying to answer for Gnasher as her reasons might be very different from mine. But I get what she's saying completely.

My dogs aren't what you'd describe as a biddable breed. They'll almost always fall over themselves to do what you ask if they think there's a possibility of a reward in it for them. But when it comes to doing what they're told simply because you've told them to a bit of defiance or selective deafness isn't unheard of.

Take for example crossing a road during a walk. I always tell my dogs to sit at the kirb. Occasionally they'll ignore my command. I know fine well they heard it but they chose to ignore it. So a quick "hey", or "oi" lets them know "I mean now!". And they almost always oblige. Had I repeated the initial command they'd just continue to ignore it. I tend not to repeat commands.

For me it's nothing to do with the word or sound - it's energy or body language that gets them to respond pronto. I can even just think the word and it works (but I'm pretty sure it's the associated posture/energy/body language whatever that the dog is responding to).

Another situation where I use it a lot is in training classes. We do a lot of sit/stay, down/stay etc. If my dog is across the room in a down stay and she starts to get up I just point at her and say "Hey" or "oi" and she goes right back down again.

I guess the "hey" is used as a correction when the dog knows what it's supposed to be doing but for whatever reason has decided not to do it. "Do as you're told now" or "Don't even think about it". Something along those lines.
Gnasher
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03-10-2009, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
But most of what you have just described is NOT exclusive to CM... consistency and patience is the essence of all training methods/

the only bit that confuses me, is you use of tsst or oi, to get a "sit" if you use those sounds for other commands, who does the dog know what you want.

I agree the word or sound you make to train a wanted behaviour is irrelevant, but surely it needs to be exclusive to the command you want.

No point in shouting down when you want a wait!!
Absolutely not. We are not talking about sheep trials here, Jackbox, or high level obedience work. I am talking about simple everyday commands. Tai knows if when I have asked him to sit, first of all using his name, then saying sit, if he still hasn't sat, he will get a sharp oi or a tsst to remind him.

If he continues to eyeball next door's chickens as we walk past instead of looking straight ahead and ignoring them, he will get an oi or a tsst. Just to remind him that, no, despite the fact he finds it funny to run at their fencing and make them squawk, he is not allowed to do this.

Same as when we are biking along the towpath on the canal and he eyes up a juicy little duckling as we go past. If a "no" doesn't stop hi, then he is oi'd.
m
Dead simple. Works like a treat. And poor old thickie me doesn't have to remember loads of different commands. I don't want an automaton for a dog, I just want what I have now got. A good, basic, well behaved dog, who I can trust implicitly and who is a joy to have the pleasure of owning.
Gnasher
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03-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by scarter View Post
I think that's the point the opening poster is trying to make.



I'm not trying to answer for Gnasher as her reasons might be very different from mine. But I get what she's saying completely.

My dogs aren't what you'd describe as a biddable breed. They'll almost always fall over themselves to do what you ask if they think there's a possibility of a reward in it for them. But when it comes to doing what they're told simply because you've told them to a bit of defiance or selective deafness isn't unheard of.

Take for example crossing a road during a walk. I always tell my dogs to sit at the kirb. Occasionally they'll ignore my command. I know fine well they heard it but they chose to ignore it. So a quick "hey", or "oi" lets them know "I mean now!". And they almost always oblige. Had I repeated the initial command they'd just continue to ignore it. I tend not to repeat commands.

For me it's nothing to do with the word or sound - it's energy or body language that gets them to respond pronto. I can even just think the word and it works (but I'm pretty sure it's the associated posture/energy/body language whatever that the dog is responding to).

Another situation where I use it a lot is in training classes. We do a lot of sit/stay, down/stay etc. If my dog is across the room in a down stay and she starts to get up I just point at her and say "Hey" or "oi" and she goes right back down again.

I guess the "hey" is used as a correction when the dog knows what it's supposed to be doing but for whatever reason has decided not to do it. "Do as you're told now" or "Don't even think about it". Something along those lines.
Tai is exactly the same at the kerb, Scarter !! And repeated commands are a no-no for me. The only one I will repeat is the sit command, but then only twice.

And the same in the sit and stay. When we are in the pub and I want to go to the loo, I will point my finger as I walk away from him, looking backwards and telling him to stay. If he starts to get up, I will snap my fingers at him as I say "oi! No, stay!" And he knows I mean it.

I agree too about the body language ... I personally find that my body language assertive-ness wise is at its best when I use verbal commands as well.

The use of these simple words "oi" and "tsst" and "eh" are short, sharp sounds that even the densest of dog can learn immediately and coupled with the correct posture and body language of the human, work a treat I find.

Great post, Scarter!
Gnasher
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03-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
It's not a boring rant it is a call for action against dog abuse, I can't help it if you can't see it and my reply was in response to someone who said what we have against the gut. A lot he is cruel.
Whilst I agree that dogs should have adequate exercise CM's programmes do not show this only the fact that you have to dominate a dog to be able to control it and he uses abusive and brutal and cruel methods to achieve this.
CM, however, is not the 'founder' of exercising your dog. There is also a danger of saying lots of exercise, this can be misused and be dangerous to dogs, particularly young and growing ones. What a lot of people also forget is the more exercise you give a dog the fitter it gets and the more exercise you have to give it. Hence dogs should have a combination of both physical and mental stimulation to tire themselves out. Just giving a dog more and more physical exercise will be self defeating.
Becky
Becky, that is rubbish. You obviously haven't seen the programmes that I have seen where CM is taking dogs out roller blading as well as walking. Obviously we are not going any of CM programmes, because he exercises EVERY dog featured, with many of them being treated to a session of rollerblading. To see an hour of Cesar rollar blading around the neighbourhood with his 4 legged clients, would make pointless tv, the action is condensed down into a few minutes of footage.

I was not aware that CM only advocates loads of exercise. Your latest rant is just another example of how you are using these threads about CM to make inaccurate and libellous statements.

Your extraordinary remark about the more exercise you give your dog, the fitter he will become, and therefore the more exercise he will need is just bunkum and makes no sense. First of all, I for one WANT my dog to be the fittest and the healthiest he possibly can be. If that means that I have got to get off my fat BTM and walk him further, and take him out more on longer bike rides, then that is fantastic for Tai ... and incidentally, not so bad for me !

That said, what you say is incorrect in any case. You do not have to give your dog more and more exercise, the fitter he gets. Once you have your dog as a well-muscled, fit and alert boy, then all you need to do to keep him at that level of fitness is to maintain his diet consistently and to exercise him according to whatever you have been doing to get him to that stage of fitness in the first place. You don't need to go on doing more and more ad infinitum just to keep him up to a certain level of fitness.
ClaireandDaisy
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03-10-2009, 11:47 AM
Doesn`t anyone else use their dog`s name to get their attention?
Is it just me then?
e.g, Daisy come: Daisy- she is alerted, come - she comes.
Don`t really see the point of an extended vocabulary plus sound effects, personally.

And if I wanted my dog to Down I`d say Down. Cos that`s what she`s been trained to do. Oi! and The Finger may be personally satisfying but I`ve never trained a dog to respond to it.
Mahooli
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03-10-2009, 11:50 AM
So what you're saying is CM takes an under exercised dog then forces the poor thing to run along side him for exercise, good grief the man just get's worse and worse.
It is not 'bunkum' but fact, the fitter a dog gets the more exercise he needs, as I said a dog needs both physical and mental stimulation. Attaching a dog to a bike or alongside you on roller blades as the only form of exercise will not resolve any issues. The dog needs to explore it's environment not just pound the pavement, this allows the dog to use all it's senses and will result in a happier, more stimulated dog.
I don't recall making any statement that CM only advocates loads of exercise.
I have made no inaccurate or libellous statements about CM, it's your blindness to his abuse methods that causes me the most concern. You make claims that a dog is responsible for choking itself despite the fact that the lead is being held by CM who fails to read the dogs body language. CM IS abusive, heartless and cruel, using bullying, aggressive, forceful and intimidating methods to achieve his results which usually do not translate into a well behaved dog for the owner unless they too continue with such disgusting methods.
I'll repeat it again, it is the blinkered view of a few on here who cannot see for looking that I find very disturbing.
Becky
CheekyChihuahua
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03-10-2009, 12:20 PM
I've just come to this thread to answer the questions Mish asked (which I believed was to find some common ground between the antis and the pros). However, I find this thread (going by the latest posts) just an extension of the CM thread that was locked yesterday

Can't see the point of this thread at the moment, as it's going to end up locked, just like the other, so I'll say "thanks but no thanks, ta"

Mish, I appreciate what you were trying to do on this thread but it doesn't look like it's working to me. 10/10 for trying though I like your style
lozzibear
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03-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Do you make sure your dog has enough exercise?
yeah, not the way CM does with rollerskates etc, but i think for some dogs thats a good way to exercise sometimes, not for every walk though.

Do you use "calm Energy" when handling your dogs?
yeah, i always try and if i start getting frustrated i just stop coz i know it makes jake worse

Have you ever used Foot tapping for attention?
no

Have you ever used Foot tapping for correction?
no

Have you ever used "tsstg" for attention
is that the noise he makes? if it is then yes

Have you ever used "tsstg" for correction
same as above lol

Have you ever used the "hand bite" for attention
yeah, but he ignores it so not anymore lol

Have you ever used the "hand bite" for correction
no

Do you use prong collars
never would

Do you use the illusion collar, or other NONslip slipcollar
no

Have you ever used flooding to overcome your dogs fear
no... not had any fears for him to overcome

Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor
not pinned, sometimes jake lies on his back and tries to nip (just playing though when he gets over excited) so i sometimes just hold him till he calms down, which generally he does, unless he is crazy hyper, then nothing works apart from just leaving him to get it out his system

Have you ever pinned your dog to the floor for any reason other than aggression
no

Do you alpha roll your dog?
i dont know what that is lol...
lozzibear
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03-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
Attaching a dog to a bike or alongside you on roller blades as the only form of exercise will not resolve any issues. The dog needs to explore it's environment not just pound the pavement, this allows the dog to use all it's senses and will result in a happier, more stimulated dog.
no episodes i have seen, have had CM saying to use that as the only form of exercise... i never take it that way. i just take it that thats a good way to get out the excess energy but to combine it with walking and offlead exercise. some of the dogs also really look to enjoy it...
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