i just did adam

in a long post

it just takes some thought and attention.

i know other have understood

Im sorry I have watched that a couple of times and to me there is no anticipation of fun there, he is all curled up in on himself
a dog ready for the chase wouldnt be lifting a front leg becase they are anticipating pushing off. any dog I have seen in a sit waiting for the release has their body tensed/poised usualy straining forwards with little weight on the bum (ben sees how close he can get his bum to the floor without actually touching it)

I dont care about the position tbh and I do like my dogs abit infront of me so I can look them in the eye and see them grin at me - and tbh my chest is too big and my dogs too small for me to do that in a proper heelwork position It just makes me so sad to see the dogs working with a 'dog trainer' but they just have no joy

then he must be very stressed then!

after all, toy/play/treat training is masking stress signs, is it not

It will remain ungot then.

i figured that may be the response

handy

Yes - there seems to be a lot of that sadly.

There seems little point in trying to explain things to you - unable or unwilling to see?

Neither, he just doesnt agree with you, nor does he "have" to.












On this subject though, I do agree with you.

The way I see it all training creates stress.

Aversive training doesn't mask that stress with anticipation of food/toys, wereas most reward based methods do.

I don't see how masking something makes the stress any less.

In fact you could argue that a dog must be really worked up (stressed) to focuse so much on a reward that he changes his basic body language.

If I wanted to I could train my dogs to display happy body language as part of the behaviours they offer. This is easy to do either way.

Many reward trainers will do this, Click and treat for a tail wag ect. I prefer to see what my dogs are thinking not what I want to see.

Adam

I am curious as to what tests you run to discover that the reward based training masks the stress?

What about 'robotic' behaviour masking stress? I mean that the dog does what it has to, appears to comply and perform where it's really robotically going through the motions, avoiding any 'emotional outburst' because it fears the alternative.