My older rott is trained to level b obed, and is trained to track, search and detain. Not sure if this makes me efficient or not (will take a video of us tomorow or the next day and stick it on) for all the sceptics lol.
Sorry to say all of this was achieved with food, clicker and a good old pat.

I actually said no offence, and have no intention of arguing with anyone, all I have tried to do is get some clarification. I now give up any hope that it may be forthcoming.

Jenni - the links I put up were not put up for the purposes of debate nor to demonstrate anything. I did a search on what you named, "pack drive" as I did not understand what it involved, came up with these websites and posted them to simply ask if this is what you were referring to. That's all. Nobody has to like or dislike them.

Why sorry? I don't recall Jenni, or anyone else for that matter, ever stating that by doing one thing, another thing can't be done.

I've said it before, but I can't help saying it again. I really have never known an area of life so closed-minded and blinkered as the dog training area. Really, why is there such a "them and us" mentality?

I can't help thinking, from posts already made, that many people now want Jenni to expand purely so they can say "Oh, well, I've done that for years" anyway, as though there's a trophy to be had for so doing.

Clearly, English isn't Jenni's first language, and I dare wager that some things have indeed been lost in translation, but for goodness sakes, must anyone who says something out of the ordinary be jumped on by the Dogsey wolf-pack and with such mindless ferocity and determination?

Just an idea but why not try, as I did, PMing Jenni, so you can get a clearer explanation where she isn't feeling bullied and cajoled by those who really have little or no right to be so condescending or self-righteous in the first place!

I disagree, I think all we have asked for is clarification of what packdrive involved, we have posted various links that we have found elsewhere in an attempt to understand where Jenni was coming from. She said one of the links was ok but no mention of the others, one of which went into more detail. This is a forum, how can we discuss any method of training or learn from it when we are not even sure we are talking about the same thing. I also think we were making allowances for the language barrier, but if we can't understand what she meant surely it is prudent to ask for an explanation. Also although I personally rarely use food rewards I do think she was being quite dismissive of those that do and questioning their results.

Dismissive? I think I was pretty dismissive to myself, because I made the mistakes with my own dog and pretty bad mistakes.

And can that last sentence be lost in translation? When I read this thread, oh, yes it can.

J

I'm sorry but do you really think the rest of us don't enjoy being with our dogs

I think I get you Jenni, I just PMd you with the following:

When I did training classes with my pup they were based very much around treats, but also voice, toys, body language etc. The only thing I did wonder about was after the initial training would you need to always have a pocket full of treats in order to get the dog to comply? As it turned out my dog is highly food orientated but these days I don't always go out with food in my pocket. Having said that, I did today because we were going to play fetch.

Anyway, that aside are there any other links you can give us or books etc.where the method you use is described in detail, for those of us who are interested in specific examples?

Absolutely agree - training is a great opportunity to enjoy being together and doing things together.

Just to lighten the mood a bit I thought I'd share an amusing story with you - well I think it's funny anyway .

Loki has a bit of a thing about post dropping through the letter box and picks it up and baits us with it, hoping to be chased. For a while we told him to drop it and rewarded him if he did by giving him a treat. Trouble is, he knew we had the treat ready.

"Hmmm," he must have thought. "This could be lucrative."

So today the post came and he pointedly ignored it, then when I rewarded him with only praise, he ran to the fridge where his treats are kept!

Clever boy, eh?

This just keeps getting better and better. What is your first language? Far-Hinkustan?

I really give up now. Koska en ole moista typeryyttä nähnyt sitten hölmöläisten. That was finnish and can not be translated.

J