But that's exactly what I did mean Katy !!!

Seriously though, I will get back to you soon with the detailed stuff.

This is the method I would use for teaching the instant down

I shall use the word 'drop' for the action & the command as this is what I am familiar with. You should use whichever word that your dog understand to mean get flat on the ground. I am assuming that your dog knows what 'drop' means & that he will reliably perform this action near you when commanded. If not, let me know & we will go back a step.

So, your dog will drop when you are close by. We now need him to learn to drop from a distance. This is a major learning curve if he is used to dropping only when close to you. It must therefore be taken slowly until he understands that 'drop' means "drop exactly where you are - not come to me & drop at my feet".

The easiest way is to have a helper at first. This person will take your dog, on a lead, a short distance away from you & walk around with him. You call "Max, drop" & give a signal. The helper stands still when you call so that Max cannot return to you. If he does not drop right away walk in & repeat the command & praise when he complies. If he does drop immediately from a short distance walk in, reward, praise enthusiastically, give your release word & play his favourite game. Repeat the exercise 3-5 times each session. If you do not have a helper you will need to tether Max on a fairly long line.

A word on treats. Have two types. One low value, e.g. kibble, water biscuit, the other very high value, e.g. meat, fish, whatever he really loves. Keep the high value treats for this exercise only. Administer the treats by giving him the low value one when you have walked in to reward the drop and, as discreetly as possible, place the high value treat on the ground between his front legs. The idea is to give Max the impression that not only do you reward him, but that the spot on which he drops gives him an even better reward.

Once he understands that 'drop' means drop NOW without returning to you you can dispense with the helper. Practice the behaviour indoors or in other very low distraction areas. Command 'drop' when he is coming towards you of his own volition, do not call him to you & drop him.

Once he is dropping reliably try him when he is heading away from you. Doesn't matter if he turns to face you so long as he drops quickly without coming to you. Then try running with him & giving the command as he runs alongside you (you also stop when you give the command). Surprise him by asking for a drop when he least expects it. Reward, reward, & reward every success. Eventually you can phase out rewards for every drop & just reward the really fast ones. Make it fun: fast drops = yummy treats & a super game.

Once he is solid you can introduce distractions, building from zero to high very slowly. At each level of distraction go back to the basics. Dogs do not generalize, so just because Max does a perfect distance drop in the garden do not expect him to immediately transfer this behaviour to a park with dogs & children rushing around. Go back to the on-lead exercises & move on slowly. The distance between you, the dog, and the distraction is very important. If you are too far away when starting training, or the distraction is too great, then you will not succeed.

A reliable instant drop at a distance takes a long time to perfect. You have to proof against all sorts of distractions & it takes so much time & patience that it is easy to give up. Even when you think you have cracked it your dog will prove you wrong, so back you go to basics again. However, if you & Max can overcome all the inevitable set-backs, all the frustrations, if you can both remain happy & enthusiastic about training, then this exercise could, in certain circumstances, save your dog's life.

I have made the instructions fairly brief so, if anything is unclear and requires further explanation, let me know.

Edited for typos

aw thanks sb just came back off holiday and read this. hubby and i are going to give this a go and i look forward to the bit where i get to 'dispense of helper' we use the command 'down' for down if you know what i mean. so should i stick to down, or try and teach him 'drop' for this kind of thing? he will do most things for a bit of cheese so i will take some cheese out with me when we do it. I will keep you updated

Katy, if he knows that the word 'down' means "lay down flat on the ground" then stick with that command. Trying to change it will confuse him. Stock up with heaps of tasty treats ... and even larger heaps of patience

Let me know how it goes.
SB

the problem i have is he mostly does down in dog school with me right near him so in the house today i have tried a few times even got some cheese out and he just comes over and then does it and when hubby tried to stop him coming he just went loopy trying to get to me he thinks he has to be next to me! i will persevere and let you know how i am getting on

Katy, Max hasn't yet twigged that, when he drops, you will go to him with the reward. He thinks he has to come to you. This is a perfectly normal reaction. You need to build up the distance very gradually. The important thing is that he MUST be held on a leash or tethered so that he cannot get to you. Stand just a couple of feet away from the maximum reach of the leash. Give your command and signal, and be ready to get in fast to reward when he drops. I don't think it will take too long before he realises what is required to get the reward, especially if you make the reward a real 'jackpot' for the first few times that he drops on the spot.

SB

hey hey, just read all this post and my Winston has the same problem...however he is crap at listening to n e one in the park, and in the house he never got the hang of voice commands, only hand signals...so wen we say down, we also have to bend down. he has never listened to us in the park, he is ok in the house, but thats about it. he has never been bitten, but he is an Irish staff, and u should see ppls faces wen he goes running towards them! lol but once he has had a bit of a play, he'll come bak no problem....the only recall method we have found that works (wen another dog isnt there) is to hide behind a tree and call him. we've taken him to trainers...it also doesnt help that my mother doesnt remember commands...so he only knows Wait...which means...stop at the road, dont pull, leave! poor confused Winston! lol

Please be aware that your dog merely has to scare someone for it to become subject to the dangerous dogs legislation. It does not matter in the least what the intentions of the dog may be: play or bite, it is all the same. If anyone is frightened by your dog the best you can hope for is that it will be required to be always muzzled in public.

For the sake of your dog's safety do not allow him to run up to people. If he does not recall then keep him on a lead. Please be a responsible owner.

oh i am very responsible, what i meant by that comment really was that they think some big lump of lard will come and play too rough with their little precious, and most ppl let Winston play with their dogs, and are fine with him. most ppl in our park know who Winston is and know he wouldnt harm a fly, but yes i do understand what u are getting at, and i think muzzling him would give ppl completely the wrong idea about him. thanx for ur advice though xxx